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Nice little bit of biology and a fine piece of reasoning! Good work.

Kinda ironic that a creature which spends its life in the brimy depths, has prefect vision, even thought it probably doesn’t need it.

<advocate type=”devil”>

Ours still have flaws. He decided that we weren’t good enough to have perfect eyes.

I don’t see how that disproves Creationism. Maybe he (He) did decide we weren’t good enough to have perfect vision. Or that we didn’t need it. There’s a whole pile of possibilities why we don’t have the perfect retina.

SuperDave, it’s probably just the opposite. They have “perfect” vision because they need the best to see in those briny depths. I’m not very familiar with octopus, but it’s my educated guess that they depend on their vision, and their perfect eyes are necessary.

Nella, such a minor flaw doesn’t disprove Creationism. Our bodies are far from perfect. We don’t have the ears of a bat, the vision of an octopus, or the muscles of a horse. But we get on just fine. He created a natural balance. If we had super-everything, we’d have nuked the world a few times by now, right?

</advocate>

Yeah if everything was perfect there would be NO diversity at all….BORING!!!! plus i think “he” finds it amusing to watch us struggle

I think octopii don’t use their eyes so much as their tentacles for scoping out the surroundings. Even w/o the blind spot it would be hard to see down there…ours doesn’t affect us that much

I don’t believe we would necessarily “nuke” each other, but your point is well taken. If we had been made perfect then that would probably mean we would have been perfect for some time, so more likely have clubbed the world a few times over, because the cavemen… well, you get the idea.

Although, perhaps perfection implies invincibility, so therefore, we couldn’t be killed, or rather, never die. So then would we stay young, or just keep getting older and older? Then would we not reproduce, or would we reproduce an infinite number of times? Could we travel though time? Would our piss taste like vodka or grape juice, or both?

Perfection is a big ol’ paradox.

…so what got you into that train of thought in the first place?

Actually, since you all seem to have such a keen curiosity, octopi are some of the most fascinating creatures on the planet. First of all, their aforementioned perfect eyes are very curious considering their environment. They have some of the best vision of any animal (beaten only by some birds of prey, I think), and yet most of their navigation through the water is done, as jackie said, by feeling with their tentacles. Another very remarkable thing is the sheer flexibility of their bodies. A full grown octopus is able to squeeze it’s entire body into a beer bottle. Amazing! Not only that, but octopi are well known to be able to change color according to their environment, thus enabling them to easily hide from their predators. And lastly, studies from the 50s and 60s have shown octopi to have incredible intellectual capabilities. They are able to recognize and distinguish different shapes, sizes, colors, patterns, and brightnesses of objects.

Just for all those curious out there…

Well another reason that creationism still blows is that the DNA in all living things has junk in it. About 30% of the DNA in your chromosomes isn’t used for anything. Even if we aren’t good enough to be perfect, what kind of pain in the ass would it be to make an organism out of DNA that is just crap?

Just because we don’t know YET that that 30% of DNA isn’t used for anything, doesn’t mean it doesn’t have a use. Remember that we are far from knowing everything about how living organisms work.

And about how we would have “nuked” the world over a few times…HELLO… what do you think we are doing now?

Not being perfect creatures hardly disproves (or proves) creationism. I doubt you could find any consensus within Christianity on the place evolution plays in the creation. Those who believe in God will tell you His purpose for putting us here was not to be rulers the earth or master hunters, but for a learning experience.

I vote grape juice.

Its an interesting thought. Id also just like to add that the octopus has the absolute BEST natural camouflage in the world. (well… its on par with the cuttlefish.)

If you have ever seen one of those things change the colour of its skin to match its surroundings EXACTLY in a matter of a second or two, then i guess you would understand why the octopus needs such wicked good eyesight.

Check it out.
http://www.stupidcollege.com/items/Octopus-camouflage

It makes sense why an octopus would have such perfect eyesight.

Another fine factoid demonstrating why we suck too much to have been “intelligently” designed.

Whose idea was it to make us breathe and eat from the same opening anyway? Convienient, because now if we inhale while we have food in our mouths, we die. Good thinking, guys!

You, my friend, are incredible. That is the dumbest thing I’ve heard you say in a long time.

People don’t die like that.

We have two openings. Try breathing through your nose while eating. Hey look, it can be done! woohoo. Need I say anything more?

I just stumbled upon this while goofing off at work, and I thought I would post a response (even if it is an old post)…
Doesn’t it say that God created people first, before all the other creatures? The octopus was probably created near the end, and God had just come up with super eyesight. Most likely he didn’t want to go back and redo Man. Especially since they were doing pretty good anyways with version 1.0 eyes.

Since the fall of man our bodies, along with the entire universe, have been in a constant state of decay. Since sin entered the world and corrupted God’s perfect creation flaws in the creation have aroused. Not only does this explain why our eyes aren’t “perfect” but it also leaves room for lots of other explanations on why everything isn’t perfect as it once was. Creation is a great way to explain the origin of the universe, it answers all questions as to how we got here with evidence (including scientific) to back it up. You can find more about creation and why Christians believe that creation is the answer to the origin of the universe at http://www.answersingenesis.org.

“Doesn’t it say that God created people first, before all the other creatures? ”

No, it actually says people were created last. I agree w/ the theme running through many of the posts here: just because we don’t understand why something was created a certain way (eg, imperfectly) doesn’t mean it wasn’t created.

That would be like saying my Ford Focus wasn’t created because there is a defect in the trunk locking mechanism. And that defect proves that the Ford Focus just evolved from lesser cars (though its hard to find anything lesser).

I don’t this anything can be concluded from either side from this. Although the octopus is interesting it proves nothing. As far as scientific evidence of creationism goes though, it doesn’t exist. Not to say that it’s wrong but creationism is religion which is a faith. Faith does not use scientific reasoning. Instead is has a habit of referncing itself as proof. So this is why I point out that creationism cannot be taught in schools “as a science”. The simple explaination is that science is willing to be wrong to further knowledge, religion considers itself to be written in stone (or a little black book that you are not allowed to disagree with). Science is not a religion and religion is not a science. Chow.

Let’s see what some experts have to say.

Richard Dawkins in The Blind Watchmaker states…
“Any engineer would naturally assume that the photocells would point towards the light, with their wires leading backwards towards the brain. He would laugh at any suggestion that the photocells might point away from the light, with their wires departing on the side nearest the light. Yet this is exactly what happens in all vertebrate eyes. Each photocell is, in effect, wired in backwards, with its wires sticking out on the side nearest to the light. This means that the light, instead of being granted an unrestricted passage to the photocells, has to pass through a forest of connecting wires, presumably suffering at least some attenuation and distortion (actually probably not much but, still, it is the principle of the thing that would offend any tidy-minded engineer!)”

Are you an eye expert Dick? Or are you just voicing an opinion? I don’t doubt you’re an intelligent bloke, but does your intelligence spill over into every field? Is biology your specialty?

Hmm… well, that’s one opinion, let’s see who else there is…

What about what’s his name from that famous book “The Origin Of Species”, what does it say on page 170?

“To suppose the eye… could have been formed by natural selection, seems, I freely confess, absurd in the highest sense” (pg 170).

Is Chucky an eye expert? If not, how could he come to form such a scathing opinion on his own evolutionary belief?

What about another evolutionist, how about ol Doc Robert Jastrow in his book “The Enchanted Loom” - what does he say on pages 96 and 97 of his book?

“The eye appears to have been designed; no designer of telescopes could have done better. How could this marvellous instrument have evolved by chance, through a succession of random events?”

I wonder if Robbie is an eye expert? Why would he say such things if he weren’t - especially being an evolutionist!

Hmm, I wonder if there are any eye experts around?

What about Dr Michael Denton?

Who?

You don’t know Mikie?

Everybody who’s anybody knows Dr Mikie.

He’s a Senior Research Fellow in Human Molecular Genetics at the University of Otago, Dunedin, New Zealand. His speciality is in the genetics of human retinal disease.

I wonder what he has to say about the eye? I mean, he looks through his own and at other’s every day so he must know how imperfect they are, right?

Hmm, what does he say in his piece titled “The Inverted Retina: Maladaption or Pre-adaption” in Origins & Design (pp. 14-17) Winter 1999?

“The more deeply the design of the vertebrate retina is considered the more it appears that virtually every feature is necessary and that in redesigning from first principles an eye capable of the highest possible resolution (within the constraints imposed by the wavelength of light) and of the highest possible sensitivity (capable of detecting an individual photon of light) we would end up recreating the vertebrate eye - complete with an inverted retina and a choriocapillaris separated from the photoreceptor layer by a supportive epithelium layer and so forth.”

My goodness! An eye expert extolling design of an inverted retina and the big long words for a blind spot!

No.

Maybe he’s delusional.

I am a creationist who enjoys shredding anti creationist arguments.

The one presented here is ridiculous for several reasons:

1) People are not smarter than God, and therefore have no right whatever to question how they were designed. (See the previous post #19 for examples of people who at least partially understood this)

2) The example you gave of a human eye with blood cells in front of the retina is actually a VERY GOOD design. This is because people live in the AIR, which does NOT do a good job of BLOCKING ultra-violet rays, which would otherwise destroy the extremely delicate light sensitive cells in your retina.

3) The example you gave of the octopus is also a VERY GOOD design. This is because octopuses live in the WATER, which filters out much of the ultra-violet light and also the visible light. Because of this, it was brilliant of God to give them a completely different eye that had less UV shielding and also greater light absorbing capacity.

As a closing thought, most evolutionists have a hard time answering the questions that they ask others. Could you explain why the god of evolution gave them the characteristics you described if you hadn’t first read my post?

I happen to be the admin of http://FreeHovind.com
Check it out for tons more creationist material!

The materialistic heathen are without excuse.

-Aubrey

Hello! Good Site! Thanks you! qxuxferzggmur

Great article. I’m doing a research project on Creationism vs. Evolution, and this helped me a lot ! I’ll be sure to add this to my bibliography. (:

@Logan

Yeah ever since the fall of man my eyes have been growing optical nerves all around, by 2050 the average human will have 12 blind spots per eye!!

@Andrew

Glad youy called on his bullshit, its a scienchristianly proved fact that nobody has ever chuckled while eating, its an atheist myth like evolution and gravity.

Thats nice. Good apologies and articles. I said for my sites to jalenack admin. Best regards

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