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Hmmm…I think it would probably be easier to tackle thought #2…

I know nothing about biology, (has that ever stopped me before?) but I do know that Darwinism has a very simple explanation for these sort of heinously complex structures. Mutation. Every once in a while, something happens to make a creature’s offspring radically different than anything before it. Usually this weirdo organism will be killed off, due to its bogosity. But occasionally, the mutation just happens to work out favorably, and it gets to reproduce, making more weirdo organisms. So these amazingly complex structures are just lucky mutations of an organism a ways back.

Concerning thought #1, I admit that a universe specifically created to have a history is completely possible. Almost everything is. But unfortunately, the only evidence is the point you brought up in thought #2, which can actually be explained by evolution. There is no way that creationism could be taught in schools as more than a possibility until some actual evidence shows up, which, if our universe was designed well, never will.

Creationism wouldn’t be taught in school as anything but a possibility, because like you said, it can’t be proven. The thing is, because of this it cannot be disproven. Going from that…because we cannot either prove or disprove it, it’s neither true nor false to us (basically the whole concept does not exist)
I get the point that a half of a structure cannot function properly, but I really don’t have any qualms about it not being able to evolve into the full structure. You say that half of a structure wouldn’t work…well these structures don’t evolve by halves. If you have a simple structure that works, mutations can build upon it. It’s like our development of computers. The first computers didn’t do all that much, but they worked. As we went along more stuff got added and computers got more useful etc. etc. etc. The point it, the evolutionary process (as just a chance thing) was not completely planned out. Protists are able to function, but they don’t have complex systems. What I do have an issue with is how this whole thing started off in the first place. You can’t evolve something from nothing.

I agree with what the majority of jackie said. As for her confusion with how evolution first began, I have this to say: Evolution did not start with nothing. All it would need as a catylist would be a massive sea of interecting amino acids bumping into each other and exchanging energy randomly for BILLIONS of years. If I am correct, the majority of earths life was spent DOING NOTHING. And that is exactly the amount of time it would take for some type of unique chemical composition to bump into each other and create something more complex. These things I’m sure happened many trillions of times and fell apart but the key is, we are talking BILLIONs of years hear. Thats enough time for a million trillion accidents to occur. Thats PLENTY of time for those Quadrillions of little amino acids to reform and try again, reform and try again, reform and try again. What alot of people have a hard time understanding is just how long a billion years is, much less 2 billion.

we may never be able to prove Creation is true or not. but we could prove evalution is & i think we’ll be able to in the next sentury. i believe we might have done so already if it wern’t for the facked that cristions run this country.for instents, we could have gone so far in medical science with the the hole overy thing,i cant think of what it was calld, but so everyone said it was immorral to use human eggs, well ive got millions of fucking eggs, & hell, im not useing then, why cant i give them away & maybe save a life, is that immoral?other wise their all just gonna end up in the toilet. what i really wanna know is why people have such a hard time letting go of this god therory? would it really be so bad if their wasent a god? hell, then u could masterbate gilt free. If you look back a few hundred years, relion was just a way to keep people under control like a form of law. crist was a great inteligant man, who brought morrals to sosiatie, we needed this religon then to keep us all from killing each other. but now it seems relgion is exactly whats tearing the world apart.(! u should look into the string theory, treaty, its really intressting!).

& of corse they’ll never teach Creation in schools, theres nothing scientific about it.religion is a part of history but god isnt. evolution has been proven everything evolved from fish or i mean the water.if this really intressed you, you should acualy look into it.i think ull find evolution is quite logical.

>> everything evolved from fish

God must have done something really bad to you to deserve this kind of insult.

i dont see how this could be an insult, whos to say we are any better then fish. true, we have a more conplex mind, but why dose this make us better?i mean fish can breath under water, somthing ive never masterd maybe you’ve got it all wrong & they’re the more superior race, they’ve deffinetly been around longer then hummans have. what i dont understand is why people see themselfs as better then the rest. why cant we all just look apon all living things, & see them as just another eating, sleeping, living thing.

How can anyone believe in evolution?????? It takes more faith to believe in this hogwash then it does to believe in God and ceation. Just listen to what evolutionists believe. There was once a bacteria cell that SOMEHOW just appeared form a bolt of lightning. It evolved into fish and sea animals, then the fish crawled out of the waters and shedded their skin and became amphibians, then they evolved and became reptiles. The reptiles shedded their skins and SOME grew wings and became birds and ducks. Then some became apes and then apes became humans. Now does that sound logical??? If we all came from the same thing….then why isn’t everybodys and everythings DNA the same. We are all different so we were created in a special way.

Scientists support biogenesis now. This means life comes from life and does not just appear. If scientists believe this, then how can they say evolution is correct. Evolution is something came from nothing (Non-living)which means scientists know evolution is wrong but they don’t want to admit it or even give it a chance of being wrong because if a scientist came out and said we were wrong about evolution, they would be blasted and fired and lose all funding for everything!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Caleb said it all!!! you go!! Finally someone who knows what they are talking about!! You don’t have to even be a christian to realize that evolution is no more than an excuse to be your own god and not have to follow rules so you just go ahead a beleive what you want but do yourselves a favor and take a look at some videos that are out by a man named Dr. Kent Hovind. He is offering $250,000.00 to anyone who can prove the therory of evolution and guess what he still has his money.

I’ve just recently started researching things about evolution therory and I am amazed at just how many people have been brainwashed with this garbage! But I guess if you’re being pounded with it from 1st grade on its bound to get a grip on some. I am ashamed for the entire human race that we would be deceived this easily! I pray that god will have mercy on you!

This presents an interesting perspective on Dr. Kent Hovind.
http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/hovind.html

guest_5541 : hi, i have a problem with the ajax Shoutbos on my page, I can only add shoutous when I loged in. If not the message won#t be displayed.
http://www.nasa-team.de

When lots of cycles are produced in a shared compartment then some of the components of various cycles can create a new one, maybe more integrated adapted and efficient, like the krebs cycle. That the krebs must be complete is a LIE. Glioxillate cycle bypasses various steps of it in plants that uses acetate as nutrient. Multifactorial assembles appears in nature apparently suddenly because of mentioned above. Darwinian evolution has known weak points like “natura non faccit saltum” (contradicted more than one century ago by max planck and his constant). Sometimes accumulation of little changes produce large ones (analogy with earthquakes). Creationism has not any rational proof nowadays. God, if exists, seems to have created a world in wich no trace of his presence is reachable by our actual understanding. Is not logical that any person can reach the faith only reading a molecular biology book. But defenders of creationism has an interesting research field. Go ahead! sorry if my english is not perfect. I am from argentina.

caleb hirsch, no scientist believes that a bold created a cell. Bolds created maybe aminoacids, that are present too in titan, a moon of saturn (the largest natural satellite in the solar system). Aminoacids (the component of proteins) are tought to be the first building blocks of molecules that can catalize chemical reactions. There is a lot of things not well understood but i think that trying to understand how aminoacids and nucleotids interacted and evolved to form DNA-Protein assembles as we have nowadays is an intersting challenge. Don’t forget that this is not a proof against creationism, god could have perfectly created life with a history that make it more coherent. Don’t forget that god is above space and time as we know. He could have created us and our history at the same “moment”. We are trapped in the timeline, not him. Greetings.

Libertus, we are composed by the same molecules as a fish. We have the same vision mechanism. We need to kill to subsist as them. What we can do with the food, what we can do with the things we see is what differences us. We are much more advanced, complex and capable of things they not. An ancestor being a fish or whatever doesn’t insult me or anyone. Evidence suggest that god was not so bad creating as from a fish. We are pretty interesting… there is some exceptions of course… poor god.

Another comment. I think that is true that the missunderstund of how evolution really is was (and is) the source of lot of terrible ideas. The survival of the stronger individual is not always true from my point of view. Simplistic ideas of evolution doesn’t seem to look to strong forces as cooperativism and altruism. I didn’t read the entire book but i not agree “the selfish gen” idea. greetings

Now I am studying biological chemistry i found something that support the notion of a new arrengment like the krebs cycle coming from combination of other parts of preexisting cycl: the last 4 reactions of the krebs cycle are very similar (exactly the same chemical groups involved) to the four reactions of the beta oxidation of lipids.
succinate-fumarate-malate-oxalacetate from krebs and the four of beta oxidation.

Audrey,
Please don’t expect anyone to take you seriously until you learn to spell.

Others,
Evolutionary theory. that’s all it is, a theory. It is more plausible than creationism, but it’s still just a theory. Calm down.

Sean, Evolution is a theory. Calm down. lol.

Seriously though, can you prove the existence of God? I’ll give you everything in my bank account if you can. ($160+ my mp3 player)

“You don’t have to even be a christian to realize that evolution is no more than an excuse to be your own god and not have to follow rules”

Where are you pulling that from? Rules and laws were not invented by Jesus. They weren’t even invented by the Jews, eventual inventors of Christianity.

And, for the very first comment, with all the ‘maybes..
Maybe that is all true, but maybe, the God who you think did all that stuff is not right. Maybe The world was really created by Zeus and Hera and Apollo etc, or by the mystical powers of ‘Mother Earth’ who somehow existed before there was even an Earth! I mean, expecting a debate to work in such an open field is a little silly.

Defenders of evolutionary theory feel that the incomprehensible, unexplainable power of God is so far reaching that it must be a myth. Therefore their belief in the bible not being a reliable source is because of their inability to analyze and explain the act of God’s miraculous creation. Satan’s method of stirring men into questioning God as our creator is this. Men have gone as far as to destroy man’s dignity through the theory of evolution, in the purpose of excluding God from this miraculous act. In this we see the results of man abandoning the true human origins recorded in the bible, unknowing that they are furthering Satan’s plan. We must now more then ever hold on to the truth with all our might, with much reading and dissecting the word of God to strengthen our faith, so that we may never become subject to human theory or fall pray to Satan and his plan to destroy us.

You have to be joking Hector…the Bible is not reliable because it is contradictory…because it gives the image of Old Testament God who is all blood and wrath and slaughter these people…and then New Testament God has obviously gotten over his moodiness because apart from killing his own son he seems to be all happy la la.

Hey Katrina, get your facts right or keep your mouth shut. The bible is not contradictory. EVERYTHING and I stress EVERYTHING scientists have found has proven the bible. Everything archaeologists have found also proves the bible. However, everything scientists have found as no proof of evolution. Anything scientists find anymore, they all come out and say “This is the missing link!!!” Guess what???? They are wrong all the time!! How can anyone explain that fish GREW lungs and crawled on land. Does that make any sense???????? Some supreme person is behind this and his name is God. I mean have you ever thought about this statement……Are we all accidents that happened to evolve because MONKEYS needed to adapt and when we die we just go back to dust, or are we all made in a special way and have a purpose in our life and someday, when we die, we will go to Heaven if we believe in Jesus. Seriously, next time your at a beach, or in a forest, or driving around, look around you. Do you honestly think all this happened by ACCIDENT??? If you do, let me know so I can pray that God reveals himself to you.

I believe in god but i also believe in evolution. There is alot of evidence about evolution from dna to fossils. The only evidence that supports creation is in the bible. How do you know that the bible wasnt just made up so we can have faith in something. They have all these theorys about creation. All be a believer when i see proof.

sarah, if you believe in God, then how can you believe in evolution? In the bible it says God created everything. You can’t believe in both. Either you believe in the Bible and believe what God did or you don’t. You can’t believe in God and then say everything he said is a lie! the Bible is the only scientific accurate book. It talks about dinosaurs and the water cycle in the Bible. it also mentions some stuff about nuclear fission or fusion, i can’t remember which one. even scientists today have said the flood in Noah’s time was true!!!

I am reading a great book at the moment by a guy called Brian McLaren. The book is called “The Story We Find Ourselves In”. It’s the second of three books he wrote a while ago. But there are some fantastic thoughts in there about evolution.

It talks about evolution being the method that the Creator used to create the world… I can’t put in words what he says – you’ll have to check out the book and I am sure it is not the only one that points out that evolution does nothing to disprove the existence of God.

Here is something for you evolutionists. How can nothing explode? Where did all that matter and energy come from? What caused its release? How did this explosion of everything (from nothing) order itself? How can simplicity become complexity? Where did the chemical elements come from? Where did the mathematical laws and physical properties come from? How do we explain the design, complexity and fine-tuning inherent in spiral galaxies, solar systems, and stars?

How did life come from a rock? How did a bird come from a lizard? Why don’t we see birds come from lizards today? Why are there no transitional fossils in our museums today? Why have we never observed beneficial mutations? Where did the information code in DNA come from? Where did the language convention that interprets DNA come from? How can we explain the random development of the human eye, reproductive system, digestive tract, brain, heart and lungs? What about the subconscious mind? What about love, morality, ethics, and emotions? Can these things really evolve gradually and randomly over time? This all HAD to come from a supreme being who made all this possible.

yeah…the bible never contradicts itself…keep dreaming.

“JOH 10:30 I and my Father are one.
JOH 14:28 Ye have heard how I said unto you, I go away, and come again unto you. If ye loved me, ye would rejoice, because I said, I go unto the Father: for my Father is greater than I.”

God is tired and rests
Ex 31:17
God is never tired and never rests
Is 40:28
God is everywhere present, sees and knows all things
Prov 15:3/ Ps 139:7-10/ Job 34:22,21
God is not everywhere present, neither sees nor knows all things
Gen 11:5/ Gen 18:20,21/ Gen 3:8

God knows the hearts of men
Acts 1:24/ Ps 139:2,3
God tries men to find out what is in their heart
Deut 13:3/ Deut 8:2/ Gen 22:12
God is all powerful
Jer 32:27/ Matt 19:26
God is not all powerful
Judg 1:19
God is unchangeable
James 1:17/ Mal 3:6/ Ezek 24:14/ Num 23:19
God is changeable
Gen 6:6/ Jonah 3:10/ 1 Sam 2:30,31/ 2 Kings 20:1,4,5,6/ Ex 33:1,3,17,14

If you knew anythign about evolution, instead of spewing ignorant rhetoric, you would know that humans did not evolve from monkeys, and even making that claim is ridiculous.
I didn’t know if I should even bother replying to ridiculous “I’m not a monkey!” statements, so I consulted the Bible for advice.

PRO 26:4 Answer not a fool according to his folly, lest thou also be like unto him.

So I shouldn’t have answered you then.

PRO 26:5 Answer a fool according to his folly, lest he be wise in his own conceit.”

So I should have answered?
You tell me.

What’s wrong? Did I just shut you up? Run out of defense? Converting to Atheism, Agnosticism, Buddhism? Lol.

Shut the fuck up Katrina. Nobody cares.

Hey Katrina, first of all, it never says in the bible God is not all powerful. I like how you read a scripture and twist it round to make it something else when in fact it does not even come close to saying that. Second of all, I don’t know where the heck you are getting facts about God being chageable. There is not one thing in the scriptures you have up there that says God is changeable. Third of all, God is present and sees all things. Those scriptures you have saying that God is not present is wrong again. It says he came down to see, but it never says God could not see it from Heaven. There you go again, putting words into the bible that aren’t there!!!! Which i believe there is a scripture about that in the bible that says if you add words to the bible that aren’t there, God will take away that one’s share of the tree of life and of the Holy City (Rev 22:18-19.) I don’t have time to talk to people like you so i have to go. oh by the way, the fact is, scientists say we did evolve form monkeys. God Bless!

Come on evolutionists, i haven’t heard anybody answer my questions yet from comment # 27!!!!!!!!!! I wonder Why?????????? Oh I know…..YOU CAN’T!!!!!!!!!!!!! HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA

Creation vs. evolution is a pointless debate.

Creationists take a stance that cannot be disproven and assume they’re right because they haven’t been proven completely wrong.

Evolutionists are never completely right at one moment as their theories are constantly being changed, narrowed, and furthered by constant developments in the field.

Basically… who cares?

Hey canes #1, i am a huge evolutionist and believe we did evolve. But your questions From comment 27 got me thinking. i researched evolution on the internet and could not believe everywhere i looked, it was all about how evolution was false!!!!! i decided to talk to one of my christian friends and asked them about Jesus and the Bible. i could not believe that all the stuff in the book of Revelation is what is happening right now in the world!!! i accepted Jesus as my savior and now believe he created the world. Thank you Canes for giving me the light!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Hey Mike, i am so glad i brought you over to the good side. it makes me feel so great i just led another person to Jesus. Hopefully more evolutionists will see those questions too and question their beliefs.

Canes, regarding #27. Evolution has NOTHING to to with cosmology thats well……cosmology. the TOE starts with the simplist form of life then builds over a long long time. Once again the explosion is a different area of science (cosmology)! Also ~5 billion years is plent of time enough to explain all of the complexity, to include man, in the world. Don’t pit science against faith and call all of science “Evolution” it’s a common mistake that makes unneeded enemies. BTW I’m a Christian!

I will tell you straight up how evolution is total bull–it! Evolution means the animals adapted to their environment right? So lets look at a polar bear. When polar bears first went up north, they did not have the fur yet to keep then warm so they would have had to grow the fur to keep them warm–am I right??? And it is supposed to take evolution millions of years to work right????? So how the heck did the polar bears survive for those millions of years without having the fur to adapt yet. After a couple days, the polar bears would have died from the cold. So tell me evolutionists, how did the polar bears survive and adapt and grow their fur for the -50 degree temperatures in millions of years without dying in a couple of days???????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????? I would really love to know. Please educate me with your horse–it ideas.

As per the Polar Bear, you are under educated in the topic. The bears didnt wander up North and say “its cold out here Id better get my coat”. Climate change happens over thousands of years NOT millions, which is still plenty of time for a bear to adapt through descent with modification, the ones with thicker coats survive as they use less energy to stay warm, its gradual not sudden. It’s the climate that changed NOT the bears geographical location. This relative “rapid” evolution is called punctuated equilibrium you need to look it up before posting a ridiculous claim like that. And as I said before Im a Christian.

Isaac, how in the heck did the polar bears survive in the -50 degree weather without dying in a couple of days?????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????? Hey Isaac, you genius (NOT) how about you go up north in the -50 degree weather and see how long you can live without any protection……I bet you 990000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000dollars you die before a thousand years!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! ANY BETS????????????? I think you are the one that is not educated on this topic….You need to look it up before posting a ridiculous claim like that!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

i don’t understand people who denies that evolution exists. Apparently, God have created a beautiful and coherent world for us, in the sense that the world perceived by us follows physical rules and it is predictable (exeptions occurs but only with consequences at submicroscopic levels, not in a fish). The world expected from creation and evolution should be the same, imagine if we can see signs of creation everywhere…faith were meaningles. So the arguments of creationists seems to be against perfection of god creation. GOD IS NOT RESTRICTED IN OUR SPACE AND TIME, SO HE COULD HAVE CREATED EVERYTHING, EVOLUTION INCLUDED. The perfect creation is maybe that, he moved once his finger to cause an “explotion” (for people who are expecting explotions (canes) big bang is not just one explotion please don’t compare with one). He “moved his finger” knowing of course everything what comes after that, and also viewing it too. BECAUSE I REPEAT: GOD IS NOT NECESSARY IN OUR SPACE AND TIME, SO HE CAN BE IN THE PAST, FUTURE and PRESENT at the same moment for him. So the argument of creationists is a lack of faith in the perfection of God creation, perfection that requires our heart to be open to believe in him. All arguments posted by creationists (a twisted way to not believe in god creation) can be denied.

Canes, about your comment 27. Good for you, your questions are relevant, is a good start and I think they luckily have an answer, supporting the idea of a perfect creation by God. Luckily there are another questions that have no answer and does not support your ideas (I write “your ideas” instead of “creationism” because “your ideas” seems to be against God creation, I consider my ideas to be creationists).
Why proved ways to analyze the age of fossils are coherent with evolution and so not coherent with your ideas? What happen with radiation measures? They twisted themselves just for caprice to support evolution because satanic forces? Radiation decay laws are laws, not just theory. If they twist, why we don’t see other forces twisting today? people with your ideas tried to put some arguments against that but they are very weak, see a little explanation in
http://www.gate.net/~rwms/crebuttals.html
Why God would have created an imperfect world with life forms appearing on it without explanation?
If God would have created a world in which we can see traces of his creation in a fish, we would have no free will, and faith would have been senseless. Is like God pressing us to believe, this is not his philosophy. That is a good reason for God to use evolution in his creation
Why do you need to see something in order to believe? The answer is because you need to believe, and that is good, keep searching traces of imperfection in creation is an interesting thing. Faith has lot of good consequences, one, is promoting science. Science is an act of faith. The important thing is to keep believing.
”blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed.”
—John 20:29
Wich agrees with my “perfect creation” point of view.
your question in 27: How can nothing explode? there is a lot of things that can explode. If you refer to big bang, i believe God caused the big bang and everything from genesis to apocalypses, and so beautiful and perfect was its creation that our free will was included and everything had an explanation (including fishes that can gradually adapted to air, Krebs cycle as i demonstrated before (comments 14 and 18), and everything).
How can simplicity becomes complexity?
Concepts of simplicity and complexity are a creation of people, only limited minds as ours perceives things as “complex”. Maybe you are talking about high ordered states coming from an apparent chaos. Thermodynamics explain it good (concept of Gibbs energy, entropy and enthalpy), but there is no need of complex physical laws to explain that (as Einstein said, physical laws use to have simple explanations). There is interaction forces between molecules or objects that makes it happen. For example our ordered solar system could have started from dust because of gravity. Do you understand? With this I also answered the question about galaxies and solar systems. If you don’t understand refer to Newton laws, Keppler laws and so on confidently… they are LAWS. So forces between atoms, molecules and objects are what creates order and complexity in this terms (because chaos is complex too, so complex that it can not be fully understand yet). Where did chemical elements come? Everything but hydrogen is formed in stars, helium is the product of fusion of hydrogen, they fuses in order to equilibrate the massive gravity force due to the big amount of matter. The stars and sun you see in night and day is the product of the equilibrium between two forces, gravity that compress and thermic expansion caused from this fusion. When the stars run out of hydrogen (10 thousand millions of years in the case of the sun) starts to fuse helium to produce energy that stops gravity and then heavier elements forms. This is another beautiful example of complexity (all the periodic table) created from simplicity (hydrogen) because of forces that makes them interact. Who created hydrogen? You will be pleased to listen to my answer, maybe God was. Who created forces and mathematical laws, again God could have done this. How could have life be created from a rock? Again, God blessed the dust with his blow, this blow seems to be in the way of something that our limited minds sees as something that we call evolution, it seems to be made by forces and mathematical laws, but maybe, if we could fully understand it, we would called it just God will.
We don’t see birds coming from lizards because we are late, birds coming on this days have no chance to compete with birds with eons of evolution. And in the case they are coming, the process in this forms of life is to slow and is maybe not so gradual to allow us to see an event conducting to this in our very short history understanding evolution. Is very slow because this animals are already very complex and evolved. If you observe viruses and bacterias, they evolve faster, you can see evolution there. Why doesn’t bacterias and viruses evolve more? Because again, they can’t compete with complex forms of life already formed, they lost their chance and are confined to simplicity, finding subtle ways to introduce themselves in complex organisms like eukaryotic cells (our cells for example) and parasiting them. Why they keep existing? simplicity sometimes is more succesfully than complexity. The language convention of DNA comes in the same way that the language of life come from, again, molecular evolution selected molecules (DNA nucleotides) that can direct another molecules that have the potential of creating complex functional structures (DNA directs de synthesis of proteins, the molecules that performs all our life supporting functions including DNA synthesis). Eyes, digestive tract, and so one evolved because they give us advantages, I don’t understand your point about this being random, I am not an expert on your ideas. Subconscious mind is the part of our mind that thinks without our perception, evolved the same way as the rest of our mind. Love, morality, ethics evolved too, because they give advantages to society to survive. Love between man and woman gives the advantage of two persons taking care of a child instead of two, is not random that love used to be necessary when the paternal cares must be long us in human case. Morality and ethics are well known to evolve in societies because they make them more competitive to other ones. Finally emotions, are mental representations that allows us to asses an incentive value for something, we share them with a lot of animals, and gives a huge advantage, they are the first way of complex intelligence, with emotions we can reject things deleterious for us, like some foods, persons, animals, etc and to have an incentive to search for things that benefits us.
About your comment 32…you should not have made it. The vast majority of scientists can answer your questions in some way or another. don’t be a fanatic. They made terrible things. Cheers

when i said “Why doesn’t bacterias and viruses evolve more?” i was wrong. They evolve, but keeping some simplicity. It would have been good evolution does not exist, AIDS wouldn’t have appeared! but evoution exists, we can’t see birds coming from lizards but we can see AIDS, H5N1 (avian virus) and other forms appearing from other ones that evolved in organisms that can infect us just in front of our eyes.

Adrian, i get what i say from the Bible. you could be right, God could have easily made evolution happen and the big bang theory and everything about it. however, in Genesis, the Bible clearly states that God created everything, it never said he created a little cell which he made everything evolve out of. it says he created all the animals and sky and the moon and the sun and the earth. it never says he had a masive explosion to create everything. I go by what the bible tells me because the Bible is 100% true (if you don’t believe me do your own research- archeological findings and prophecy that is going on right now) According to the Bible, there was no evolution, God made everything, and that is what i believe!

Hey west side/anthony. You exude ignorance. Listen close and I’ll talk real slow and simple so you can understand. The polar bears DID NOT move up north. Okay you got that part? It was the climate (that means weather like snow and rain and temperature) changed where they where at. Smart people call this an “ice age” you may have seen the movie. When things got warm again (thats after the “ice age”) the bears then moved north where it was still cold. Any more questions? because I cant get any more simple than that.

Canes #1, you do not have a good handle on the Genesis creation account. It speaks in broad terms which could easily (and I believe do) describe evolutionary processes. It does not mention atoms, cells, bacteria and many other things that do in fact exist. So when it says “God created the heavans and the earth” that includes the small stuff.

I have a question of creationists.
Religious people believe that God looks like an old man, Earth is Flat, Earth has been created from 6 to 10 thousand years ago, Sun rotates around the eath, Earth is the center of everything, The sky is concrete and so on (Christians, muslims, judism) All these things are in written in all the Holly books of the religions. If you believe these things you are a christian, muslim and jew. and you must be an idiot. if you don’t, and still call yourself religious, it means you want to believe some part of your Holly book and don’t beleive other parts. if you really do’nt believe these then evolution is a sceintific proof of our history. greetings

Canes… you are still inconsistent. U don’t believe God created everything. You believe that god created a universe, some rocks, some creatures and a couple of persons. You don’t believe God created you. You come after lots of generations after the creation, what is equivalent to the notion of big bang theory. Its me who believes (or don’t deny) that God created everything, included me and you and a cell and molecules before to make my existence something coherent with the physical and chemical laws he created. Because God might (and must) created all the “presents” in history in the same “moment” (I mean outside our timeline) because he is not necessarily limited by our space-time dimension. Imagine it like God making a movie or something like this, everything is in his mind, he know everything including our future. Is the only way to create something consistent. He knows our future, but we don’t, leaving intact our free will. A problem with my notion is that free will is just an illution. This is the only point I don’t like and could be the major weakness of these ideas about creation. One solution could be that God created infinite universes with all possible combinations of “futures” and our souls are independent entities (created by Him) that can make free choices that put us in one of this possible universes he created for us. Quantum mechanics seem to support this. We must pay attention to the work of our physicists and scientist, because they study God creation.
About the bible, make your own research, but there is a lot of evidence about God, and Jesus sacrifice!!! Existing before time.
Timothy 1:9 – “who saved us, and called us with a holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before times eternal”
The genesis do not deny the idea, it says: “In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth”. It could be talking about THE BEGINNING OF GOD CREATION, not about the beginning of our time. As He created everything not limited by our space and time, because he is not limited by space and time. He could have created things in a different order, his chronology could be different. A human simil could be the one of a man writing the script for a movie. The scenario is first created, then the characters with its corresponding wardrobe and so one. Then the movie is filmed, and then, it is played as a whole history. God’s “movie” is something more complex and wonderful, in which the characters are not just actors, they (we) seem to have free will… I hope we have! I don’t like the idea of being a God’s puppet. In fact I don’t care, but is not nice.
Next says “And the earth was without form, and void”. WITHOUT FORM and VOID… mmm very suggestive. Isn’t it? First he created, then he included it in our universe of forms. So, I think that “creationism” should read the bible in a more open minded way, in order to conciliate some scientific facts with it. I think it is possible, don’t be afraid. Cheers for everybody.

Sam have you ever even taken the time to open the Bible? Your post is typical atheist propoganda that lacks any real insight. If you think your claims are correct please post chapter and verse for proof and I’ll show you where your evidence is lacking.

Isaac, how many years ago was this ice age?

Adrian, i don’t know where u are getting the idea that i ever said God didn’t create everything. He did create everything in his own special way, but he did not use evolution. If you go in the Bible and count all the years up, the world is only a about 6-7 thousands years old. Evolution is just some stupid idea that Darwin decided to suggest. By the way, even Darwin said evolution would be impossible to explain the complexity and development of the human eye. Even the man who suggested evolution is not sure about it. What does that tell you???????????????? Isaac, I don’t know who brainwashed you into thinking that Genesis has stuff in there about evolution, but it doesn’t. It says God CREATED the Heavens and Earth. then it goes onto say that God CREATED every living thing that moves in the sea and let the land be filled with tame and wild animals and small crawling animals. That looks like evolution to me……NOT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! The Bible says God created everything on Earth and every living creature in six days!!!!!!!!!!! That must have been some pretty fast evolution!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Never heard of that kind of evolution before!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! You got a name for evolution over a 6 period day Isaac??????????????????????????????????????????????????? Let me know Please. I am dying to know. Please tell me, PLEASE, PLEASE. Let me guess what this evolution is called- really, really, really, really, really, really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really fast evolution??????????

Canes, not a problem first about the ice age there have been more than one and they typicaly result in mass extinctions (thats one of the reasons diansours are not around any more). Here is a link if you are really interested, but I have a hunch your not.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Climate_change

Most of todays reserch points to us being on the tail end of an ice age that warmed up about 10,000 years ago.

As per evolution, this is why I said your Bible knowledge is lacking. You undoubtedly reading yours in english which says “day” but the text was written in hebrew which says “yom” as in yom kippur the jewish holiday. The term yom had three distinct meanings first a 24 hour day (your favoite) second a 12 hour day or the period between sun rise and sun set which how the jews observe the sabath (the “day” of the lord) and third it refers to a indisctict period of time as in “back in my fathers day.” The creation account obviously points to six distinct periods of time which where NOT 24 hour days.

BTW you have your creation account out of order. God created fish, then birds, then land animals which by the way is exactly the order the Theory of Evolution said it happened.

canes, about the eye, just a good topic. Neuroscience is my favorite one! I spent a lot of time studying the eye functioning and how it process information. About receptive fields in the retina, rods and cones, amacrine cells… In the eye occurs the first processing of information (not soooo complex by the way) for example by the “receptive fields” mechanism. The processes that occurs in the 17th area of brodmann (primary visual cortex) are much complex than in the eye, that is a rudimentary first step in the vision mechanism (that relies mainly in the brain). I understood some of the processes occuring in this 17th area (how receptive fields in the retina send its information via thalamus and how the cortex can know that there is for example, a line in this 17th area). A good book is the one from Mark Bear, Barry Connors and Michael Paradiso called “Neuroscience” to understand the basics of this mechanism. But the processes in the associative cortex (parietal cortex and temporal cortex, in which intelligence seems to take place) are far away from being well understood by no one (much much less by me). Creationist should take this example, and not the eye, that is not much better than eyes of simpler animals. Once again, “creationism” choose a poor example, because the principal examples are already demystified, they seem to take lateral ones in order to confuse people. Bad ways for good ends. If you will center your discussion on this topics i recomend you to start a scientific career (I’ve chosen biochemistry) and studying it with passion and relating it with other main sciences, because if not you will be easily cheated. You are once again inconsistent, you seem to be reluctant to believe that evolution could make an eye or other things. But if evolution is “used” by God as a beautiful argument to make our universe consistent. He can make with evolution whatever he want, you can’t use this argument about evolution being something that is not enough to make something appear. If God wants, he can use evolution to create whatever in an instant. Bible doesn’t deny evolution in a sharp way. Other argument often used by “creationists” about the missing link. The missing link is a term that is refered to a link between the man and the monkey. Archaelogists in lasts centuries had found not one but… LOTS OF MISSING LINKS. I saw one of them in front of me in the metropolitan musseum of New York (the skeleton called Lucy). There is a whole genealogical tree made of “missing links” that are not missing any more. So please… stop with missing links. Sorry canes, you are defending the impossible, a lie. You must think again about defending ideas of people that put “the missing link” as an argument… in fact, all scientific arguments are ridiculous, no intention to make an offense, the better you have is pure conjecture. My recomendation is you creationists to stop trying to convince people that evolution is a fake, is a sensless argument. We must start reading the bible and decide if God denies or not evolution. The problem is that the bible was translated several times, and there is problems with that. Please some one tell me where evoution is so categorically denied. The argument of the 6 or 7 thousand years the earth has, someone knows how to deal with it in order to conciliate it with facts? whatever, some religious people says that the intention of the genesis is not explaining how the world was created but how the evil entered in the world, to the public, that if nowadays is not easy, imagine this days.

“Hey Katrina, first of all, it never says in the bible God is not all powerful. I like how you read a scripture and twist it round to make it something else when in fact it does not even come close to saying that. ”

Explain this to me. Read these lines very carefully and ask yourself, does the second one not say the exact opposite of the first one.

PRO 26:4 Answer not a fool according to his folly, lest thou also be like unto him.

PRO 26:5 Answer a fool according to his folly, lest he be wise in his own conceit.

Re: evolution specifically, where in the Bible does it say “God created the animals, but definitely not with evolution because that’s stupid.”

Genisis doesn’t mention HOW he creates the birds and fishes etc, just that he does.
Why couldn’t it be with evolution?

If you knew anything about human history,not to meantion geology, astronomy, you would realise that the earth is much much older than 6 or 7000 years, and that the Genisis story is meant as a parable, it is meant to explain to primitive people where they came from and who made the world.

Who are you to judge how long God’s days are, who are you to put an arbitary 24 hours on each of God’s steps? How do you know that God’s 7 days are not longer than yours?

” By the way, even Darwin said evolution would be impossible to explain the complexity and development of the human eye. Even the man who suggested evolution is not sure about it. What does that tell you???????????????? ”

That tells me that Darwin was a product of his times. That tells me Darwin was not an eye doctor.

meh i got bored of th comments half way so i dont know if this has been said before but to the due who said that life comes from life and cant come from nothing adn the rest on the creation side of thing ….who created god?

because surely he couldnt have….evolved could he??

oh and yeas the krebs cycle aint brilliant but its there to produce nadp for the electron transport system whitch makes 34 out of the 38 molecules of atp in a respitory cycle (seems pretty efficent to me )and other molecules can be used insted of NADP (and the subsequent NADPH+H)
laters people i have to take my A level biology exam in 3 days so off for revision.

oh sorry for duble post but just read eye dudes post above even certain single celled organisms have light senseing proteins in them that could be called an eye urs is just a larger collection of them and maby there4 where thousands of animals the got them wrong and where fairly quickly killed by the one that had even rudimentry eyes like the third eye on the lisard i forget name of it cant really see but can measure levels of light so it can tell time of day year and posibly would notice the showod of somthing above falling on to it

Sasuke, who posted that the krebs cycle was not efficient? creationists says that it is impossible to appear by evolution, they never say it is not efficient. I posted about this topic in comments 14 & 18.

Katrina, Katrina, Katrina, first of all, you ever read the bible, those scriptures in Proverbs that you put are exactly the same thing. In proverbs 26:4 it says “Don’t give fools a foolish answer or you will be just like them. Proverbs 26:5 says “Answer fools as they should be answered or they will think they are wise.” Guess what Katrina– One says don’t give fools a foolish answer, the other ones says answer them as they should be anwered. There is no opposite there!!!!!!!! Please point it out to me where that condradicts itself!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! One says don’t give a foolish answer, the other one says answer them as they should be!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Where does that contradict itself?????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????? Also Katrina, in Genesis 1:21 it says God CREATED the large sea animals and everything living that moves in the sea. In Webster’s dictionary evolution says an unfolding process development or change, a thing evolved. Created in the webster’s dictionary says to cause to come into existence; make. HMMMMMMMMMMMM thst reminds me of something…Oh yeah…that’s right…Right in Genesis 1:25 it says God MADE (past tense of make) the wild animals, the tame animals, and all the small crawling animals to produce more of their own kind!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! What do you say to that Katrina….You know maybe if you read the Bible, you wouldn’t be so ignorant on this topic!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! oh by the way the Earth is only 6-7 thousand years old….you want some proof here is some proof for you….Read the next post form me

True Christianity doesnt come from facts, it comes from something more much more, i challenge every athiest here to go to a person close to God and ask for forgivenes, ul then see that facts are only for the simpel belief.

One last thing athiest always chant: proof we want proof, proof that God exist, but athiest give me the proof that God does NOT exist..

any one here?

Every one come back to this site tomorow at 5 then well have a real debate!

Here is some proof, I will have more later.

Our oceans contain concentrations of Aluminum, Antinomy, Barium, Bicarbonate, Bismuth, Calcium, Carbonates, Chlorine, Chromium, Cobalt, Copper, Gold, Iron, Lead, Lithium, Manganese, Magnesium, Mercury, Molybdenum, Nickel, Potassium, Rubidium, Silicon, Silver, Sodium, Strontium, Sulfate, Thorium, Tin, Titanium, Tungsten, Uranium, and Zinc. The river systems add to these concentrations at fixed apparent rates. Comparing the amounts already in the oceans with the rates at which more are being dumped, indicates the earth, as well as its river systems and oceans, are fairly young.
Sediments are being eroded into our oceans at a fixed rate. There are only a few thousand years worth of sediments on the ocean floor.

The Earth’s magnetic field has been accurately measured since 1829. Since 1829, it has decayed 7%. It is decaying exponentially at a fixed rate. By graphing the curve, we see that approximately 22,000 years ago the Earth’s field would have been as strong as the Sun’s. Life would have been impossible.

Comets are constantly losing matter. They are losing and losing and never gaining. “Short Period Comets” (like Haley’s comet), which have predictable orbits, should deteriorate to nothing within 10,000 years. Why are there still Short Period Comets?

Jupiter is losing heat twice as fast as it gains it from the Sun (it is five times further from the Sun than Earth). Yet Jupiter is still hot. If it is billions of years old, shouldn’t it have cooled off by now?

Jupiter’s moon, Ganymede, which is roughly the size of Mercury, has a strong magnetic field, a possible indication that it is still hot. Why hasn’t it cooled down?
Saturn’s rings are not stable. They are drifting away from Saturn. If Saturn is billions of years old, why does it still have rings?

The Moon is slowly drifting away from the Earth. If it is getting further, at one time it was much closer. The Inverse Square Law dictates that if the Moon were half the distance from the Earth, its gravitational pull on our tides would be quadrupled. 1/3 the distance, 9 times the pull. Everything would drown twice a day. Approximately 1.2 billion years ago, the Moon would have been touching the Earth. Drowning would be the least of our concerns!

Earth’s rotation is slowing down. We experience a leap second every year and a half. If the Earth is slowing down, at one time it was going much faster. Besides the problem of extremely short days and nights, the increased “Coriolis Effect” would cause impossible living conditions.

In 1999, the human population passed six billion. In 1985, it passed five billion. In 1962, it passed three billion. In 1800, it passed one billion. In 1 AD, the world’s population, according to the censuses taken by the governments of that time, was only 250 million. At the current human population growth rate, considering wars and famines and all such variables, it would take approximately 5,000 years to get the current population from two original people.

Here is some more proof….

EVIDENCE FROM THE GLOBE
1 – Earth rotation. Because of solar and lunar gravitational drag forces, the spin of the earth (now about 1,000 mph [1,609 kmph]) is gradually slowing down. If our world were billions of years old, it would already have stopped turning. Or, calculating differently, a billion years ago our planet would have been spinning so fast—it would have become a pancake. So, either way, our earth cannot be more than a few thousand years old.—p. 21.

2 – Magnetic field decay. Earth’s magnetic field is slowly, relentlessly lessening. Even 7,000 years ago, the earth would have had a magnetic field 32 times stronger than it is now. Only 20,000 years ago, enough heat would have been generated to liquefy the planet. Therefore, the earth cannot be over 6,000 or 7,000 years old. This is an important matter, affects the entire planet, and has been measured for over 150 years.—pp. 21-23.

HERE IS SOME MORE…………

EVIDENCE FROM BENEATH THE SURFACE OF THE EARTH
1 – Escaping natural gas. Oil and gas are usually located in a porous and permeable rock like sandstone or limestone. Fluids and gas can easily travel through the containing rock, but more slowly pass out through the impermeable rock cap. The rate of gas escapement has been found to be far too rapid to agree with long ages. If the theory were true, all the natural gas would now be escaped.—p. 23.

2 – Oil pressure. When drillers first penetrate into oil, there is a “gusher.” This is caused by high pressure in the oil vein. Analysis of surrounding rock permeability reveals that any pressure within the oil bed should have bled off within a few thousand years, but it has not happened. These deep rock formations and their entrapped oil cannot be older than 7,000 to 10,000 years.—pp. 23, 26.

3 – Oil seepage. If much oil seepage had occurred from out of the ocean floors, all the oil in offshore wells would be gone if the earth were 20,000 years old.—p. 26.

5 – Molten earth. Deep within the earth, the rock is molten; but, if the earth were billions of years old, long ages ago our planet would have cooled far more than it now has.—p. 26.

6 – Volcanic eruptions. There are many extinct volcanoes, but evidence indicates that volcanic activity has only continued a relatively short time since the world began. Otherwise, there would be far more lava than now exists.—pp. 26-27.

8 – Zircon / helium ratios. Helium is a gas and can diffuse out of crystals much more rapidly than many other elements, including lead. Since heat increases chemical activity, there should be no helium left in the zircon in that same deep hole. Yet amazingly little helium has escaped. Therefore the world must be very young.—p. 27.

9 – Soil-water ratio. The earth is still in the partially soaked condition it became at the time of the Flood. This indicates that the Flood occurred only a few thousand years ago.—p. 27.

Here is some more………….

EVIDENCE FROM ON THE SURFACE OF THE EARTH
1 – Topsoil. It has been calculated that 300 to 1,000 years is required to build one inch [2.54 cm] of topsoil. Yet the average depth of topsoil is about eight inches. On this basis, the earth could only be a few thousand years old.—p. 27.

2 – Niagara Falls. Erosion of Niagara Falls is about 3.5 feet [106.68 cm] per year. Since the length of the gorge is about 7 miles, the age of the falls would normally be about 5,000 to 10,000 years at the most. However, the Flood would have greatly accelerated that erosion.—p. 27.

EVIDENCE FROM THE OCEANS
1 – River deltas. The Mississippi River dumps 300 million cubic yards [229 million cm] of mud into the Gulf of Mexico each year—continually enlarging the delta area. Yet the Mississippi delta is not large. Calculations reveal it has only been forming for the past 4,000 years (4,620 years, to be exact). If the world were 120,000 years old, that delta would extend all the way to the North Pole.—pp. 27-28.

2 – Sea ooze. Soft mud from dead plants and animal life form on the floor of the oceans, at the rate of about one inch (2.54 cm) every 1,000 to 5,000 years. The depth of ooze indicates the earth is quite young.—p. 28.

3 – Erosion in the ocean. We do not find the erosion in the ocean floors which ought to be there if the world were millions or billions of years old. There are ragged cliffs and steep mountains. Indeed, the continents should have eroded into the oceans by now.—p. 28.

4 – Thickness of ocean sediments. If the earth were billions of years old, the ocean floor would be covered by sediments from land, measuring 60 to 100 miles [96.5 to 160.9 km] thick, and all the continents would be eroded away. Instead, we only find a few thousand feet of sediment. Based on known yearly sediment deposition, calculations yield only a few thousand years for our planet.—pp. 28-29.

5 – Ocean concentrations. We have a good estimate of the amount of various elements and salts in the ocean, and the amount being added each year. On this basis, our world is fairly young. For example, the age of the earth, based on nitrate analysis, would be 13,000 years.—p. 29.

6 – Growth of coral. Coral growth rates indicate the earth is quite young. No known coral formation is older than 3,500 years.—p. 29.

Here is some more proof………

EVIDENCE FROM LIVING THINGS
1 – Tree rings. Sequoias are never older than 4,000 years, yet are the oldest living thing in our world. Bristlecone pines are said to be older (over 4,000 years); however, it is now known that some years they produce a double tree ring. Therefore, the sequoias remain the oldest. Only man or flood can destroy the sequoia. It appears that climatic conditions, prior to 600 B.C., were erratic and produced difficult conditions, enabling tree-ring counts to provide longer ages than actually occurred.—pp. 29-30.

2 – Mutation load. Calculations based on genetic load (the gradually increasing negative effect of mutation on living organisms) indicate that life forms could not have continued more than several thousand years,—and still be as free from mutational defects as they now are. (The deteriorated atmosphere after the Flood, with the consequent increase of solar radiation, probably increased this genetic load.)—p. 30.

EVIDENCE FROM CIVILIZATION
1 – Historical records. If mankind had been living on earth for millions of years, we should find records extending back at least 500,000 years. (Evolutionists claim that man has been here for a million years.) But, instead, records only go back to about 2000-3500 B.C. When writing began, it was fully developed. The earliest dates are Egyptian (Manetho’s king lists), but should be lowered for several reasons. Well-authenticated Egyptian dates only go back to 1600 B.C.—pp. 30-31.

2 – Early Biblical records. Bible records carry us back to a Creation date of approximately 4000 B.C., with a Flood date of about 2348 B.C. Scientific facts point us toward the same dates.—pp. 31-32.

3 – Astronomical records. Prior to 2250 B.C., we have not one record of a solar eclipse ever having been seen by people! Because it is totally accurate, that earliest recorded astronomical event is a significant date. It comes only about a hundred years after the Flood. We have reason to believe the sky was darkened with volcanic eruptions for years after the Flood ended.—p. 32.

4 – Writing. The oldest writing (pictographic Sumerian) is dated at about 3500 B.C. The earliest Western script (Proto-Sinaitic) somewhat before 1550 B.C.—p. 32.

5 – Civilizations. No really verified archaeological datings predate the period of about 3000 B.C. More ancient dates come from radiocarbon dating, which, prior to about 600 B.C., is known to be much more inaccurate. In every instance, our earliest aspects of civilization (crops, animal husbandry, metallurgy, building, cities, etc.) go back to the Near East. This agrees with the Bible record (Genesis 8:4).—p. 32.

6 – Languages. Records of ancient languages never go back beyond 3000 B.C.; yet, beginning in the Near East, there are language families which have spread all over the world since then.—pp. 32-33.

7 – Population statistics. Estimates, based on population changes, indicate that, about the year 3300 B.C., there was only one family.—p. 33.

8 – Facts vs. theories. Evolutionary estimates of the age of the earth have constantly changed and lengthened with the passing of time (it currently stands at 5 billion years). But the scientific evidence remains constant and, as new authentic evidence emerges, it only fastens down the dates even more firmly. It all points to a beginning for our planet about 6,000 years ago. Some may see it as 7,000 to 10,000 years, but the evidence points most distinctly toward a date of about 4,000 B.C. for the origin of our planet. The evidence for an early earth is not only solid, it is scientific.—pp. 34-35.

Do you need any more proof Evolutionists???????????????????????????????????????????????? Have you finally seen the light???????????? Even your savior and the almighty Darwin said evolution was absurd!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Darwin said and i quote right out of the book of Origin of Species, “To suppose that the eye, with all its inimitable contrivances for adjusting the focus to different distances, for admitting different amounts of light, and for the correction of spherical and chromatic aberration, could have formed by natural selection, seems, I freely confess, ABSURD IN THE HIGHEST POSSIBLE DEGREE.” All i can say is WOW, how the heck did anybody get brainwashed into this theory???????????

ok

Cane Im a creationist my self but if u got ur info from Kent Hovind, then its probably a lie, look kent hovind is a little rough around the edges with his facts. Although his so called facts can be proven wrong, his theory cant!

so with all that proof of creationalism who made god?

About earth’s magnetic field:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thomas_Barnes_(creationist):
“Thomas G. Barnes is a creationist who posited that the magnetic field of the Earth was decaying at an exponential rate. Barnes claimed to have calculated that the half-life of Earth’s magnetic field was approximately 1,400 years. He published these ideas in a 1973 book, Origin and Destiny of the Earth’s Magnetic Field, which was taken up by the creationist establishment. Today, most of his theories within the book have been discredited, largely as Barnes failed to take experimental uncertainties into account and used an obsolete model of the interior of the earth.
Barnes received an honorary Sc.D. degree from Hardin-Simmons University, a Christian school.

About comets:
this is so sensless that a non expert in astronomy like me doesn’t need to do any research. There is a cumulous of ice reach bodies called “Oort’s cloud” from which comets seems to came. From time to time one of this bodies enters in an eccentric orbit, but they are not all in their orbit from the beginning of times, that is the reason why although comets looses matter and eventually are destroyed near the sun or a gigantic planet they are still appearing. Once again, an extremely nonsense argument

About Jupiter and Saturn:
Without understanding nuclear fusion concepts we can’t understand how a star can radiate energy without receiving it from anywhere.
The excess heat of Jupiter is an interesting question that is unanswered at this time (like it was the question about the sun). There is much we don’t know about Jupiter and the other distant planets of the solar system, and much that we have only recently learned. Given the overwhelming evidence of for an ancient solar system and the great deal we do not yet know about Jupiter, it is far more likely that Jupiter’s excess heat will eventually be explained by some process we do not currently understand fully. I think these are very tentative explanations at best, but they show that there are other explanations for the claims of “creationists” other than that the earth and universe are less than 10,000 years old. Deuterium-Deuterium fusion is a possibility that is under study:
http://adsabs.harvard.edu/abs/2000IAUS..202E..75O

About Ganymede and Io.
you have forgotten Io canes.
“Ganymede and Io are under the influence of extremely powerful tidal forces from Jupiter. These forces are enough to keep those planets geologically active. See, for example, Galileo Continues to Return Data from February’s Flyby of Io from NASA’s Jet Propulsion Laboratory.
Io is close enough to Jupiter that the huge planet causes tremendous tidal forces on the smaller, more volatile moon. The tidal forces can cause the surface to bulge up and down (or in and out) by as much as 100 meters (330 feet)!

About the earth’s rotation
http://members.cox.net/ardipithecus/evol/lies/lie005.html
there it explains why the argument is a fake

Well canes, your arguments are all of these styles, they have answers. Before I answer another one it could be nice that you answer one of the arguments I have posted and you seem to ignore while posting yours. For example, c14 is useful to meassure the age of fossiles that have up to 57000 years (ten dacaying periods of C14) U235 have a half life of 710 million years, K240 1,3 billion years. These and other isotopes are used in order to meassure ages longer than the age of the universe (the reasonable one and the one posted by you). Bequerel laws of radioactive decaying are very LAWS (like gravity and other) and they are too simple and too proved to be wrong. So, instead me to explain all your fake arguments. Why don’t you explain me why there are so old rocks or in which way are bequerel laws wrong?

But there are more elementary issues about “creationism” that people misses because everyone trend to follow (answer) other people arguments. What are dinosaur fossils??????? Lets believe that they where lets say 6000 years old??? so they coexisted with humans???? Or they are just fake bones created by…Darwin???? The devil??? uou lot of work uh, that’s a conspiracy theory!!!!! If we shared our world with this bones owners. Why there was not a single human that wrote about these not exactly discrete animals? o sorry i’ve forgotten the Flintstones!!

adrian ur so dum u dont even have the slightest idea what creation is all about. Look 6000 years god made the world, he made humans, he made plants, and he even made dinosaurs at that time, 6000 years ago they all lived together, God told noah to build a boat and take each of every kind, about 4000 years ago.Noah even took dinosaurs on the ark. Wait a minute: dinosaurs are kind of big arent they. So noah took baby dinosaurs cause they sleep more and eat less. But dinosaurs died out, ill talk later more on that. So the fossils we get are from the pre-flooded dinosaurs, the ones that died in the flood along with the fossils of other animals and even humans. Oh YEAH, In 1817 the word dinosaur was made up before then they were called dragons. All over the world there are many legends about dragons, theres even dragon paintnigs on walls of caves, and yes they look exactly like dinos

Adrian, first of all it is a proven fact that carbon dating is not accurate. If you’re going to base your ideas on carbon dating, then your going to have wrong answers. Also, dinosaurs did live with humans. In the Bible, in the book of Job, read chapter 41.

canes you are not answering to me. You can not say “C14 is not accurate” because there is not any measure 100% accurate (see Heisenberg’s uncertainty principle). You must see if is accurate enough. For this you must answer to me with numbers. Your answer must be like “C14 inaccuracy is about 900% ALWAYS so if the maximum that can be measured is 60000 years… ”
With C14 well performed and taking into account inaccuracy sources it is impossible that ALL THE MEASSURES that are older than 7000 years have such an inaccuracy. C14 is not the only method. There is other isotopes with which you can measure up to million and billion years of lots of compounds (as I mentioned K40, U235, Ar40 and so on) there is ways to confirm IF THE ACCURACY IS GOOD TO YOUR OBJECTIVES. Age estimates can be cross-tested by using different isotope pairs. Results from different techniques, often measured in rival labs, continually confirm each other. In fact, there is only a 1% chance of error with current dating technology. Older fossils that can not be measured by C14 are dated with other techniques (plural) that independently confirm the results. There is a lot of lots of studies measuring for example something belonging to a king 1000 years ago, and if your results are 990 +/- 40 years is maybe good (despite the lack of precision), something bad performed could be 1060+/- 15 years.
Stratigraphy? is a law that newer fossils are over older ones, it is evident and logical and there is no evidence of dinosaurs coexisting with humans (is evidence supporting the opposite). Why there is no other evidence than the bible (not very concrete by the way) and some supposed dragon legends…come on?. The flush and Noah’s history can not account for the stratygraphic studies, the flush can not erase more than the superficial strata. THE ARGUMENT ABOUT THE INACCURACY OF RADIOACTIVE METHODS IS ABSOLUTLY A LIE, THEY ARE ACCURATE ENOUGH TO PERFORM MORE ACCURATE STUDIES THAN REFUTING YOUR ARGUMENTS, THAT CAN BE REFUTED WITH AN ACCURACY OF LESS THAN 1%… All non sense with a 99,9% of accuracy. Recommend you to review your knowledge about radiometric studies.

the similarity of dragons and dinosaurs are not better than the similarities between dogs and lambs. the supposed pictures of dinosaurs in caves are in fact dragons (mytical figures) that can be remotely associated with dinosaurs. I insist, Noah’s history can not explain why stratygraphic studies can not find human and dinosaurs in the same strata. Sorry, I were glad if any sign of creation is find, it ensures my life afterdead, but, like Miguel de Unamuno said “is the doubt who kept religion alife”

Wow should be checking more often. Canes you are obviously NOT a scientist or you would know just how absurd that list of arguments you posted is. Im not going to take the time to address each one but just to say that if you know anything about geology (thats rocks and sediment) you know about tectonics which explains much of the “problems” you stated. And you would also be able to distinguish between fields of science for example evolution is biology NOT geology or cosmology. If you dont believe in evolution fine but to say that every field of science is a bunch of krap then post 60 year old arguments that have been disproven several times over is a clear cut sign of a closed mind.

BTW Katrina your list of Biblical contradictions is as lame as Canes list of “proof” proper study would easly clear up those issues but it is contradiction you seek and NOT clarity.

Also Canes the book of Job is poetry and describes a Nile crocodile and a hippo NOT a dragon or dinasour, statements like that make intelligent people run from the truth of Christ

Creation can not be right as it forms its own paradox that you all seam to just skip over if we can only exist because we ar so complicated that me must be designed then “god” must be far more complicated than us (and we are just some thing to pas the time like a video game )but that means that god itself (maby it asexual) must have been created by its god which must have benn created by its god an so on in a never ending line which means that the first god must have come about via its own evlolution (i say evolution as its the onlyothyer viable theroy at the moment but maybe its somthingelse agian) bet this get’s ignored by the creationalists like everything they can not explain at least the evolutionists can admit flaws in thier theory and continue to strive fo a beeter answer . insted of following a book that was writen by some person/persons noones ever meet. So do the creationalists find scientology a reasonable argument , after all it has a book?

if we all came form adamn and even adn then nohas group shouldnt we all be horribly inbred? and have far moore genetic dieases/problems than ther are?

Rich, in the bible it stands something like this: devide the water above and on the earth. this above would form a layer of water above the admosfere, and something like genetic insrihment would take place, it has been tried and tested. theyve tryd to remake the world and found that snakes lost their poison, and many overs like u would for instance nether get sick, thats how strong ur body imunite woud be. I cant really speak freely on this matter as i know little of it but for a 15 year old that might just be enough.

oh, adrian the paintnings i saw were exactly identical, the t-rex did not have wings, just like the drawing of the long-neck thing, pagiusaurus i think, let me tell u a little story, a south african heard explorer, heard about these reports of great creatures in a swamp in the middel of africa (about 70% of this swamp is still unexplored). in the swamp there were many tribes he went to the thirst tribe and took out a picture book of dinosaurs to them, they patiently looked at each picture, but when he came to spesific picture, they stated pointing and chanting Mukili-umbimbi. So the explorer went to another tribe and he said mukili-umbimbi and a tribe member would take a stick and draw on the ground the same beast as what was in the picture that was shown to the other tribe. When the explorer came back from his trip he anounced to the capeagust( newspaper) that he saw creatures that can only fit the deskription of dinosaurs. a Few months later he piblished a book called “the living dinosaur”. (i apologise for my great spelling mistakes im sure i made but im afrikaans not english) oh yes adrian please go read the book u might learn something.

in my next statment ill tell all u mad athiests how evolusion defines sciense, and no this is surely not made up! as u all can see for urself

like genetic insrihment would take place, it has been tried and tested. theyve tryd to remake the world and found that snakes lost their poison, and many overs like u would for instance nether get sick, WHO REMADE THE WORLD? cause that would require far more knowlagde about cells and a more powerfull computer than exists to even perform every calculation of ever atom in you genetics and all weather sstems and such and wouldnt that water fall back to earth? wher did the water go . and noones answered orbitos question about who made god and the paradox thing you just seem to neatly skip over this glareing and huge piece of evidence against your therory

Hmmmmm…Isaac interpret it as you wish but i have a different interpretation. Since when could a hippo or croc breathe fire from its mouth or have smoke pour from its nose or set coals on fire with its breath. my interpretation is a sea monster/dragon

Adrian, what are you talking about the Bible is not concrete? It is the only book in the world that is scientificly accurate. In other words, many of the principles of modern science were recorded as facts of nature in the Bible years and years before scientists confirmed them. The Bible talks about the world being ROUND (All the people had to do during Columbus’s time was READ THE BIBLE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!)(Isaiah 40:22)
There are many more, but you will have to look them up yourselves. I don’t have time to put them ALL on here, there are too many of them. Oh, one more thing, all the excavations that archaeologists of dug up, support the bible. The biggest point that points the Bible is true is this– everything that scientists have found supports the Bible, however everything they have found does not support evolution.

Canes scine you claim to have all the answeres who created god??? creation can not exist unless to can answer thatquestion it is void before you get to any “proof” you have mentioned ergo it dosnt really mater what the bible says because it cant prove or even give a remote answer to the question who made god ? he cant of made him self and you say he cant have evolved so did another god make him but who made him and so on to infinity but wh made the first god then?

i agree 100% with obito, and frankly ,it’s quite ironic, those who believe in creation constantly ask how something such as the universe could come from nothing, yet somehow an “all powerful being” such as “god” could just appear out of nowhere and create it all…that makes even less sense…

Hey Obito, someone had to here since the beginning, and that someone was God. Someone had to be here when time first began, but in the Bible it says God was here before time began. So God was here all the time. Someone had to be here since the beginning!!!!!!!!!

God was always here!

Ask yourself this question….Which one sounds better to you???

Are you an accident resulting from evolution that evolved because you had to adapt and when you die, you just go back to dust, or were you created in a special way from God, who loves you and has purpose for your life, and when you die, you don’t go back to nothing, you will live on in a great city with steets of gold and palaces built up to the sky?

Why are we here????? To live ninety years or whatever and have our whole life be meaningless and have nothing afterwords??????
If our whole life is meaningless and we live for nothing but to eventually die someday,why don’t we just kill ourselves now! No, there is something better and his name is Jesus!!!!!!

life isn’t meaningless, the only reason we exist is to reproduce, as bland and harsh as it may seem that’s the truth, so keep worshipping whatever “god” you see fit but your only making yourself live a lie…and besides none of you answered the question, if something can’t come from nothing, how could “god have been here from the beginning, or at all?

to be honest cannes the one where im not a special flower made for a purpose sounds better to me i live for every second i live to see whats new i live to make and shape my world as i see fit . if i was mearly something here to amuse another i would then kill myself or sit and never move to piss him off for i want my freedom i dont want a puropse thats designed by someone else i want my own, the one i make for myself and why if he loves me so much does he not just spawn me in this paradise why does he put me here where i can feel pain and suffering to be juged for the rest of eterinty on waht may be as long a life as mere hours existing as but one small bunch of cells or a bayby to die in an acident left to wonder in limob (i uderstand that what happens if you die before baptism but i may be wrong) why if i am to live for eternity must i be judged on such a small time, it cant be lear somthing as in the infinte time i spent in paradise i would forget the reason i sufferd / or i go to hell and suffer for all eternity til all i know is suffering for no more reason than i chose my own path. also not totaly up on the whole thing but didnt the devil used to be an angel who left/booted out because he didnt like the way god ran things , why would he then go and do gods bidding in punishing the people who dont follow god idsnt it more likly he would welcome those rebels to hell and they would have ther own paradise based on their own morals and ideas. we dont kill purselves now becausewe dont belive ther is anything after we must enjoy what we have that makes it to use infinity more precious this life because its the only one we have you who belive ther is somehting better for iternity afterward why do you live why not die now and go straight there. and your saying the sole proof you have that god was here first is the writings of a humman that didnt know why he was here and like you jumped to the conclusion that to live only to return to the ust was meaningless and so created a reason to exist a purpose someone to live for with the promise that ther was a reason for his pain wher as we love our lives and want to make our paradise here for us and our desendants. and you say someone must have been here in the begining ? thatm akes no sense at all why must there be a consusnes why it is far more likey that there would only be basis , the prospect the ingredents for concusnes in saying what you have you have made your self look like a fool .also what if you have the wrong religion? you may just be pissing off the real god a hellof a lot more. “No, there is something better and his name is Jesus!!!!!!” how is jesus better may i ask i mean hevan has to have billions of residents adn of course maby aliens too (or if you say they dont exist in the millions of years in the future if we ever meet any that will mean we can safly say well no more need for church that was a load of bollocks) so your probally not going to meet him that often nice how you forget the dude who “made” him though. oh and (hideus generalisation comming up) its been the people who belive in a god that in the past have tried to stop scientific advance ie th gallileo thing(even thoguh he himself belived in god) and this advance will hopefull lead to a way to leave our solar system as of course the sun will expand/explode byebye inner planets so for us to contiue to eist we have to leave and for that im thankfull for the nonbelivers. (you may want to ignore that part as it is a generalisation as i said may who are key to this may belive in a god). goodday to you for now every one rember to do somthing you want to somthing that makes you happy today be it your partner(s*), praying, walking, or mearly sleeping late…i wish you well

*we can dream ;D

Canes, that story about the earth is another typical lie of creationists, i remember when I was a child and saw that Eratostenes (276-194 BC) not only knew that the Earth was round, he computed the diameter in the equator and misses only by two thousand km!!). Long long before columbus (and eratostenes who made more than knowing that) people supossed that the earth was round wathching the image of the earth in lunar eclipses. Anaximander (610-546 BC) already believed that the Earth was a cylinder. The first man supossed to be the first believing that the Earth was a sphere was pythagoras (582-507 BC). The lie about the Earth being square was invented by people with your kind of beliefs (fundamentalistic parts of church). But in the antiquity and the middle age people use to believe the earth was round. The modern misconception that people of the Middle Ages believed that the Earth was flat first entered the popular imagination in the nineteenth century, thanks largely to the publication of Washington Irving’s fantasy The Life and Voyages. So canes you maybe must start thinking that there are too many lies behind what you defend.

rofl didnt realise how long that rant had got .

cannes you use the bible as your ultimate proof and it is the obly source of refeence for creationalists (again generalisation but i belive most here are christian ans cannes clearly is and that who this is directed at) but its just a book (group of books ) writen by man so is it posible its just some ones hilosiphy thier attempt to explain why thery are here just as evolution is to others however ther are hundreds of books about wher we came from and based on your stand point ALL must be taken as truth or esle its ther i no proof to be had from one above the others , but as you so often state as do other creationalits do evolutionists admit they dont know if theirs is right they dont know all the answers they are trying to find them yet you people stedfastly refuse to acknowlage that you may be wrong that what you read in a long dead persons book is real and the absolute truth, dosent that tell you somthing?. plus if you wher a god who would you like more someone who just belives what they are tole about how easy it was for you to make the universe and thats it boring its a fact no big w00p it was easy no wonder to it at all, no reason to learn more to seach and discover, be happy with what you can see and have been told, or someone who costantly seaks more of the wonder and splendor you have made by looking at the smallest detail and the big picture at the same time constaly looking for more detail more of how you did it even if they dont think you did whatching as those who continue to explore find new ways of useing the things you made for example partical wave duality of electrons and all the wonders that discovery made (even thoguh we are not 100% sure how it happens or why) i was this searching this disatisfaction with what was ther their desire to make more than you provided, they are trully enjoying and wondering at what is ther . i would find that far more satisfying than just contiually being thanked.

I don’t remember saying that everything in the bible was factually incorrect. There is no reason why some facts may not be correct. It’s a kind of ‘history’ of the Jews anyway, with a bit of myth and legend thrown in, and a fairytale about a higher being that gives his followers permission to kill everyone and anyone.

The fact that scientists have dug up towns from the Bible proves nothing- except that those towns exist. the town of Bethlehem is not proof that Jesus was born there in a stable with wise men around, its proof that the person writing these stories had the sense to put them in real places.

As for the sad assertion that without God’s purpose for us, life isn’t worth living…that is a truly saddening POV.
Besides are biological imperative(which i our ‘purpose’) to reproduce, life gives us its own challenges and purposes.

Who are you to judge a meaningless life?

The way I see it, we create our own purpose.

Maybe it’s to learn everything we can about a subject, maybe its to provide financially for a family, maybe its to do your best to help someone, some group, cure some disease.

I know its easy to rely on a fairytale that makes life easier, a book that claims to have all the answers to every problem, a god that protects you from harm and gives your life meaning, because it means you don’t have do any of that yourself. You don’t have to rely on yourself, just sit back and let God work his will.

Excavations support what? that dinossaurs coexisted with humans? no excavation supports this. Why you always ignore facts that clearly contradict you?

Obito, I hope you enjoy your meaningless life when all you eventually do is die someday and go back to nothing. When i get raptured and you are here left on the Earth, don’t be mad at me!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Be mad at yourself, “I personally want to live a life where we have no purpose” Obito, i know i have the right God, i am 100 percent certain he exists. Look around you…..Yeah, i guess this did ALL happen by accident……….NOT.

Obito, even some of the most hardcore athiests (ie C.S. Lewis) eventually started to believe in God and converted to Christianity. I still have faith in you!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I will pray for you everyday. And remember one thing, God loves you, and He will forgive everyone sins, no matter how bad they are!!!!!!!!!!!

Adrian, not to break your heart, but there has been fossilized footprints found of humans and dinosaurs together….Maybe you should stop posting false statements!!!!!!!!!!!

you know canes, theres a such thing as taking something too far, and…you’ve taken your belief too far, that’s a bunch of bull**it. Evolution has facts that support it, wish i could say the same for creationism…NOT! But seriously, i’ll give all the money i have to the man(or woman) that can give me three VALID points supporting creationism…and i’m just gonna keep the money since theres a better chance of a monkey jumping outa my a** than there is of anyone finding those three points

I may be agree with you canes about that we here in this world is so unbelievable maybe as God existing. This is a reasonable approach that gives me faith or at list make me have a respectful position about the existence of God. Having eyes and mind gives me faith. But sometimes things are not like we want to be, you must accept the possibility of a self contained universe (like Stephen Hawking postulate in “the history of time”). And you should accept the possibility of no afterlife. FAITH IS NOT A MATTER OF SCIENTIFIC KNOWLEDGE AND THIS IS WHERE YOU ARE SO WRONG MIXING THEM. This people that sell you those lies are real sinners.
We don’t know, and this is fine, because if all the pseudoscientific nonsense (just want to be emphatic) that you defend were true, the words by Jesus about believing without seeing were senseless. And about killing oneself, is the opposite of your statement. If I could be sure about the existence of God and paradise because of the temperature of Jupiter or other crap, I kill myself trying to save the first old lady crossing the street in order not to commit suicide and go to hell. The opposite occurs if I believe that maybe God doesn’t exist, I will try to live my life because it will be the only one!!! Psychologically speaking, the possibility of God and hell shapes my super-ego (morality) because i don’t want to go to hell, and the possibility of not God at all shapes keeping me alive and not wishing to go to paradise right now.

so why is christiianity more right than islam is it because you wher raised by christians in a christian society ? how are you certain? and if god loves me why arnt i in hevan now? why can i go to hell ? why does he feel the need to tourture billions with desease if he made everythiing why make smallpox why make aids why make a virus at all? if gos has a pourose for all of us why did he make hillter with ther purpose to muder jews and gypsies why did he dsign a purpose for darwin? why did he make the spanish iquasitions? why did he make you?

Hey Anonymous, I’ll give you all my money if you prove evolution is true!!!!!!! You can’t do that either!!!!!!!!!!! It goes both ways

Scientists support biogenesis now. This means life comes from life and does not just appear. If scientists believe this, then how can they say evolution is correct. Evolution is something came from nothing (Non-living)which means scientists know evolution is wrong but they don’t want to admit it or even give it a chance of being wrong because if a scientist came out and said we were wrong about evolution, they would be blasted and fired and lose all funding for everything!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!….. From comment 4

I don’t know how many of you people have read a science book lately, but it says spontaneous generation is false and biogenesis is true. In fact, there is a whole chapter on how spontaneous generation is false. Just to let you all evolutionists in on a secret… Evolution is spontaneous generation! Which obviously means, evolution is not true! Even scientists agree that biogenesis is true and not spontaneous generation. WOW, even scientists are acting like idiots…..”Spontaneous generation is false, but it has to be true to support evolution, even though it’s false.” Does that contradict itself evolutionists?????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????

Obito, God made all those things because the sin of the world. God wants everyone to come to Heaven, but only a select few will go. All you have to do is accept him as your savior and you will live in paradise! If you don’t, you will get cast into the lake of fire and brimstone and be there forever! God doesn’t want us to live in a perfect world, He wants us to have problems and struggles. But He will always be with me, no matter what i am going through, and He will help me out! And remember one thing, God has always loved you! Before you were even born, God knew you.

All living things are related to one another to varying degrees through common descent (share common ancestors)……i got this statement off an evolution site. That means in evolution we are related to everyone!!! What a big happy family we are.

HMMMMMM…that means a fish, bears, dogs, cats, kangaroos, alligators, sharks, apes, chimps, giraffes, elephants, crocodiles, jellyfish, myself, cardinals, ants, anteaters, sloths, frogs, lizards, tigers, lions, tucans, rabbits, iguanas, grasshoppers, hippos, snakes, polar bears, penguins, and EVERY ANIMAL ON THE PLANET share some little DNA that is exactly the same!!!! Yeah, i guess humans do look a little like frogs and birds and hippos and sharks and dogs and cats and lizards. And I guess frogs do look a little human…But just a little. YEAH RIGHT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Evolution is a joke!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

How did anyone get brainwashed into this crap!?

Oh, that also means i am related to eveyone in Africa, all the evil terrorists that try to kill us everyday. And guess what…..Accdording to evolution…..We are all related to Hitler! I would rather hang myself than to be related to that SOB. And you know why i am not hanging myself…. Because i am not related to him. And you what that means….Evolution is false and a bunch of crap!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Canes, you talk about lies? Didn’t read about all the lies i demonstrated you said? didn’t you read about Anaximander, Eratostenes? You are by far the #1 liar in this blog. Now i am reading “biological chemistry” from lubert stryer, in order to get my biochemistry degree, so I do in fact read scientific books all the time. Your fisrt problem is not ignorance, your problem is you are unrecoverable, you can read lots of books and you will understand nothing. You does not discuss this topics in a serious way and precipitate into conclusions that are absolutely superficial and with clear bad sources. Stop making this silly thing about calling “the scientists” because in this way you are really related with Mr. Adolf, who in fact have a very bad concept about theoretical scientists (like Heisemberg, Einstein, etc). “Scientist” includes a vast variety of people who thinks in different ways, some, amazingly, thinks like you!!! But stop with this. I will concentrate in demonstrate your lies once again, for the rest of the people, you seem to be unrecoverable: first of all, the fact of a common ancestor is irrelevant. When we talk about the origins of life we are talking at a chemistry level, not organisms. You can’t have a notion about how can life emerge from biochemical molecules, but if you study chemistry and biochemistry you will have a deep and respectful position about life coming from what it is composed: molecules. There is no life form that is not composed by DNA, only prions (Creutzfeldt-Jakob disease, the crazy cow) that are composed only by proteins. There is no lifeform that is not composed by aminoacids. So you, canes, me, Hitler, Bin Laden, George Bush (who killed more people than 1000 Osamas) Bill Clinton (Good president) fishes, Lizards, insects, bacteria and viruses are composed by exactly the same kind of DNA and aminoacids, aminoacids may have little variations but irrelevant to this discussion, and some viruses are composed by RNA. Many bacteria uses exactly the same 20 aminoacids as humans. Frogs and even insects and worms are related with humans genetically in their segmentation genes (homeobox genes) that made them segmented life forms equal to us. They are called TATA boxes and they were sequenced in almost all animals included us. And you can sequence them easily with a PCR devise in a laboratory. So we are related, hang yourself. Bacterias evolve all the time in front of our eyes, viruses too, new species of viruses that are composed by the same molecules as we are composed appears always (like AIDS and avian virus), so give me all your many canes. The lier that offers 250000 to the person that proves evolution was called several times but he asked as a condition that a big bang must be reproduced in laboratory, and the jury must be selected by him (all creationists), so imagine how pressed was he in order to ask this nonsense. Come on canes, give me one correct, just one. So go to study viruses, check they adapt and evolve using the same molecules as we use, in fact they use our machinery to reproduce themselves, give me all your many and go predicate, seriously, maybe this is your vocation and a very good one, but not science.

Someone genetically related with Hitler or Arabs must hang himself? You are qualifying people because is genetically related with someone? and you said something about Hitler? uou canes, i hope it was just a reaction.

Hey Adrian, i guess Clinton was a good President….I mean he stole china out of the white house, had a girl give him head while he was in the oval office, and even had a guy murdered (Whitewater). The best President i’ve seen! Oh, that’s right, Chinagate too. Oh, that’s right he lied to our entire nation….some President!

Oh, and adrian, to prove something about the big ban theory…..i want you to picture every house in your neighborhood getting torn down and put in a giant ball in the middle of your city. Then, put an explosive on it and blow it up. Do you think that this explosion will cause order. Well, that is what scientists said happened to our universe. A huge explosion happened and eveything was magically put in place…..Did you know if the Earth was about 1% further back all our oceans would freeze, and if we were abut 2% further forward, all our oceans would boil! Hey, that must just be luck after an explosion!!! Something blows up and we land in the perfect spot. It’s amazing!!!!!!! No one was behind that!!!!

Adrian, i never heard you answer about how your entire science book says spontaneous generation is false, but that is the only way possible evolution is true…..You didn’t answer that one for me!!!

Oh Adrian, before you put stuff about Anaximander and Eratostenes, maybe you should read up on your history. The Bible took many years to write, but to bad for you, the part of the Bbile that has all the proof was written before the A guy and E guy were even born! That’s a lie on your part!!!!!!!! Your the biggest liar on the blog!!!!!!!

So the writers in the Bible knew the Earth was round before the A guy or the E guy did!!!!!!!! You know why…..God told them!!!!!!! What do you say to that Adrian, or are you going to put more false lies about history on your posts????? You say I lie, i don’t where you are getting that, but at least i do research on my history before i put a post up that is false!

Don’t you understand that any fool can watch a moon eclipse and realize that the Earth is round? it has no real merit. Further more, you must not be so clever in order to realize that watching at the rest of the sky, the moon is round, the sun is round, the planets and stars seems to be round spots too, a drop of water when is not moving fast in the air is round too. So this is not a big scientific merit, I don’t care who was the first, what I proved is that the story about all humanity believing the earth is flat is not true, what automatically invalidates your argument about the uoooouu greaaaat discover made by the men who wrote the bible. Only some obscure sectors in some countries highly influenced by the part of the church that started the period known as “obscurantism” killed Galileo and prosecuted all real scientific minds (Jesus Christ included) arguing the bible is the only source of true knowledge massively believed the Earth was flat. I hope at list this time you recognize your mistake.

Here is a riddle for people under 2 years. if the earth’s shadow projected on the moon is round. Which form has the earth?

Canes, you are mixing concepts again, I understand it because you don’t study biochemistry or biology, what you said is not ridiculous but is false. “Spontaneous generation” is a term that described the appearing of life forms in food boiled and canned in the troops of Napoleon (I remember James Burke described it in his good tv program “connections”). So for a while people believed that life can start by “spontaneous generation” all the time. I studied in “General microbiology” that Louis Pasteur was the one who demonstrated that it was false, with a clever experiment:
http://www.kent.k12.wa.us/staff/TimLynch/sci_class/chap01/pasteur.html
He put broth in an “s” shape flask and he saw that spontaneous generation wasn’t occur, he probed that the bacteria that are responsible for broth to decay doesn’t come from nonliving matter but from bacteria that was in the air, for example in dust. He demonstrated it because the broth doesn’t decay for a lot of years in this flask (the s shape tube doesn’t allow bacteria to reach to it. So what our good friend Pasteur demonstrated is that bacteria that are responsible for this comes from other bacteria rather than life is created from nonlife all the time. This is what theory of “spontaneous generation” means. Pasteur didn’t answer where the first bacteria comes from by demonstrating that spontaneous generation was wrong. So a common ancestor can exist even if what was called “spontaneous generation” is false, because what was denied was that life is created all the time, it was not denied that once upon a time life evolved from aminoacids and nuclotides. (Be careful and not confuse “evolution” which is just the science that study changes in living organisms with the existence or not of a common ancestor).

Canes, About the sediment of the earth indicating the Earth is young (comment 62). That is another lie of Russell Humphrey, here in this link is a simple explanation about why the sediments are not uniform and why they are not a good clock.
http://www.cesame-nm.org/Viewpoint/contributions/Hump.html
It explains another lies presented by you in this blog. As everyone can see all the arguments you presented were refuted long ago.

Canes #1
Scientists support biogenesis now. This means life comes from life and does not just appear.
Canes #1

Hey Obito, someone had to here since the beginning, and that someone was God.

so scientis are stupid for be;iveing life can come from its onsituant parts -atoms molecules etc. but you are smart for beliveing it could come from absolutly nothing ????

and rofl at you saying about evolution saying we all related (even though geneticaly you are 98% identical to a halibert and the most complex organism in terms of how many chromosomes it has (you have 48) is a fern with over 1300 but this is just because its been around far longer so far more nonsense random mutaion dna has occured) well evolution says you just probally desended from a few different kinds of starting organism wich probally do not exist and may nt even be as complex as a prokryotic cell let alone Eukaryotic cells that make you up and you say this is nonsense because your related to all the naughy terroists but you sasy you come from JUST 2 people qhitch means in essance they are your borthes sisters/coussins and we have all been in breading for thousands of years i mean if two people a man and a women went of today and started inbreeding for however many thousands of years you claim mr adam and mrs eve where then would you say there was somthing slihgtly wrong with that? and in eccense all the resulting people(the ones that were viable-cappable of reproducing) would be related to each other far more closly than a group of orgaisms that when they say are related they meean use the same form sof data storage(dna) and metabolic pathways etc?
once again your contradicting your self has given all the athiesets a chuchles and caused all the creationalists to cringe.

oh you say scientsts funding would be cut if they said they thought evoution was wrong – what scientis are theres if her job is just to prove evolution they reprosent a tiny percent and they could go get a job for the creationalits. most scientis who work with biology are looking for why things work they dont need to know how they came about thousands of years a go and how to form these compounds syntheticaly for cureing disease or how to get orgasms to make synthetic products , like the chikens theve made to produce anti caner durgs in thier eggs, to make them cheaer and hopefully plentyfull enoguh for all who need them.

“though geneticaly you are 98% identical to a halibert”

Guess what Obito, you are only geneticaly about 92% identical to your own parents!!!!!!!!
So you are telling me that you are more like a halibert then your parents??????????? I DON’T THINK SO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

The lie about mutation load (comment 66). I’ve just given my final exam in genetics, and I know this is false, of course no professor waste time with nonsense like this. Some creationists (such as Henry M. Morris) have suggested that mutational load would increase over time and thus make populations unviable. However, they ignore… the effect of selection acting to weed out deleterious mutations… absolutely dreadful. Not taking into account natural selection is really very ridiculous. This ridiculous person is considered by many the father of the creationism.

Oh, and adrian, to prove something about the big ban theory…..i want you to picture every house in your neighborhood getting torn down and put in a giant ball in the middle of your city. Then, put an explosive on it and blow it up. Do you think that this explosion will cause order. Well, that is what scientists said happened to our universe. A huge explosion happened and eveything was magically put in place…..Did you know if the Earth was about 1% further back all our oceans would freeze, and if we were abut 2% further forward, all our oceans would boil! Hey, that must just be luck after an explosion!!! Something blows up and we land in the perfect spot. It’s amazing!!!!!!! No one was behind that!!!!

your an idot the big bang spead huge amouts of mater expandidnt out (namely hydrogen and neutrons) the the gravity of all these particals slowly brings them to gether over billions of years till they gt so many and so dese and they are still bring ing more that the presue in the centre causes fussion between the H’s to occure hence a star a star also as fusion goeson produces every ellement in teh univers(stable element that dosnt need to be made to discoever) and when it runs out of hydrogen it also can burn thse elemenst when it gets to iron it goes bang adn again spreads more crap out(it can do it for other reasons to) and then new stars keep more stuuf orbitiinb whitch again forms new balls of matter around the srat (yes some falls in a lot does a lot flays out to but some finds its self in orbit) then these condense int o hundreds of planatoids that colidea and so on any that got to fast fly out the solar system hence we dont even know they where here noe or to slow they fall in again we dont see them any more, but as you said if we where 1 percent foarwad or whatever thats why there are trillions of plaents and only some are in the areas that could suport life as we know it like ours but thats why your heere if the earth wasnt wher it is ther would be no life here bt there still would be life somewhere else you also forget that if we didnt have a large hor revolving iron core we wouldnt have an magnetic felid around the earth and solar winds would blow away the atmosphere (like poor little mars) just because our planet happens to be where it is isnt lucky its nessasery thats what crationalists dont understan they look at things from now and look back i scientis looks at what evidence he/she has and tries to start from the begining so what they get makes far more sense you seam to be desparatly trying to put more meaning to your life than it really has the only meaning you have is the one you make. oh and you betetr get out of whatever country you are and turn of your pc cause if we all die of global warming youve just commited suicide matty boy becuae youve caused the problem not alone but you did cause it so in eccese we are al slowly commiting mass suicde as your screwed and are gooing to hell especially now as youve been told this so to do anything that causes global warming or any form of polution you know may kill you so your now activly trying to kill your self , dont worry im sure the devil will grant your wishes and throw in to fire, me ill join in the weekly bbq by the lakeside drink beer with my good pal satan because after all like all athiests he didnt want to do as god told him so why would he burn people like god told him guese hed only do it to those who belived and the rest of us well were on the same side and now as we’r imortal down ther could play paintball with reall guns try stupid things anything that gives us a bit of fun hile you do what in heavan? play hide and seak? cant think of many fun things to do in heavan scince the 7 deadly sins seam to encompas all thegood parts ,
shame i dont belive in the devil either but meh, we can dream

sorry if i was wrong about the hallibert althoguh i do remeber that from some wher but it might be we sahe 98 percent of the dna of a halibert but hell im not a geneologist but i notice you ignore that part wher you say about life from nothing being stupid and saying god came from nothing

There is were you have some reason canes, of course being 92% similar to our parents is another of your lies. We are in fact 99% similar to some animals in the parts of the genome that is translated into proteins called exons. But recent scientific evidence strongly suggest that this is meaningless. I tell you why. The introns, the non expresed part of our genome and the bigger part of it was diminished in its functions because science didn’t know about them until recent years. Now it is known that, although it is truth that they do not codify for any protein, they may have lots of regulation functions. This regulation is what make us more than 1% different to some animals. Once again, with the same bricks you can do very different houses. This regulation functions are done by “pseudogenes”. This pseudogenes are a beautiful subject and enlights a lot about evolution mechanisms. Believe or not in evolution, it is well to studying it, thinking about it, it is beautiful how a lot of things can be understanded better with evolution thoery.

Adrian, to bad we are only about 92 to 93 geneticaly raltaed to our parents. That is my point…Scientists say we are 99% identical to apes…That is not true! there is no way we are more closley related to apes than our parents!!!!

I never said God came from nothing, He was always here! If you are going to go that far then where did hydrogen come from, where did the Earth come from, where did our solar syystem come from, where did the ginat mass come from…did it just appear????? Don’t you get it…..God was always here even before time began!!! He has always been here!!!!!!!!!11

This contradiction you are pointing is false, if you are talking about genes (exons), we are more than 99% similar to any human being, more to our parents. If introns get into the game, we can’t talk about a % because we do not know. So my recommendation is not taking into account this % problem because we are just starting to understand it. Genetic science knows as far as the bricks of the house, a lot of animals are 99% similar in the bricks they use, but now genetics is starting to study how the bricklayer works and how the house is designed. In the future, when all this knowledge is developed we will may be in condition to talk about a %.

I never said God came from nothing, He was always here! If you are going to go that far then where did hydrogen come from, rofl how can you ask wher hydrogen came from when you cant prove in anyway where god came from ?

each side of this argument if you go back to the very start has no proof what so ever and at this moment in time it cannot be proved either way (alough i do belive there is a theory about what was ther before the big bang but i dont know who it was by and im sure it would involve a far greater understaning of mathmatics than i have)

but what sounds mre likely life (a seires of chemical reactions) came form chemicalls slowly over billions of years throught the gradual formation of the universe or that there was life at the very start from nothing what so ever and it was so insanly boared out of its mind decided to crate a game bet well find other life forms in the universe in time bet ther are billons of other creaturse all either talkin or on thier own version of pc’s debatine wether or not they eveved came from a god or a theory we have yet to even comy up with? oh and how are you sure christianity is the right religion after all its not th oldest or the newest or andy thing uber special ?

Natural selection is a fact that you can see in every place in nature, just put animal planet and see how almost all individuals in species select the best mate they can find (new characteristics that gives them an advantage), and there is a trend to reject the ones with deformities (exceptions are a confirmation of the rule). The only consequence of natural selection is evolution. So evolution is a fact. There is confusion with the term “evolution” (which is just the study of changes in species… a fact) with the term “phylogeny” which is the study of the relationship between to species under a historical perspective. There is a relation between both, the FACT OF BIOLOGICAL EVOLUTION, mixed to the huge amount of evidence about similarities between species, leads to the idea of common ancestors for different species and maybe to the idea of a common ancestor for life itself. The same way that the FACT OF THE EXPANSION OF THE UNIVERSE leads to de idea of big bang. Is incredible the lack of scientific rigor of some pseudoscientists even when talk, with creationists is because denying “phylogeny” attracts less than denying “evolution” which is a better known word by the public. What creationists try to deny is not evolution, is “phylogeny”, that’s to say, denying that two species can be generated by one. So creationist denies that a specie can generate two new ones. At the level of viruses and bacteria, they are clearly wrong (AIDS and H5N1 are new species selected because the succeeded infecting humans). In order to see what I am talking about visit:
http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/evolution-definition.html

So I propose the conformation of a jury in order to decide if canes must give his money to anonymous as he promises or not.

about the canes nonsense in comment 105. Cannes, footprints can be a fake made by someone. This kind of evidence is in some non serious biased places like
http://www.bible.ca/tracks/tracks.htm
or
http://www.answersingenesis.org/creation/v18/i4/dinosaurs.asp
but not in any serious and unbiased journal. Don’t be innocent; don’t get cheated by persons who tell what you want to listen.
Close to where i live (a beach called pehuenco) there are fossilised dinosaurs footprints:
http://www.rolexawards.com/laureates/laureate-76-manera.html
they stay in the surface for a lot of time, a human can leave their footprints a lot of time after. Of course creationist don’t even mention it.
If they show me one dinosaur step OVER a human step I will believe… that is a fake. In this place they show a human step over the dinosaur step:
http://home.insight.rr.com/jkmckee/dinosaurhumancoexistence.htm
it says that the human passed just a little time after…mmmm I hear lying footsteps. Come on, show me a footprint of a dinosaur OVER the human footstep
There is one creationist nonsense about this footprints that is very funny: the human footprints are inside the one of a big dinosaur… as if they have the same lenght of their steps… and then some people say that “lies has short legs” very funny. And I insist, if these footsteps are true, why there are no bones together? Why they are not tools, or even houses made with dinosaur’s bones or teeth? Why has Noah’s the veeeery bad luck about ALL the species of dinosaurs dying in his arc??? Why are you so fool canes about believing proof without checking it with something called common sense you seem not to have? The answer may be: because you have some racist and other phobia (as you demon-strated in some comment) that don’t let you think properly (that is what a phobia is about)

130. Canes #1

I never said God came from nothing, He was always here! If you are going to go that far then where did hydrogen come from, where did the Earth come from, where did our solar syystem come from, where did the ginat mass come from…did it just appear????? Don’t you get it…..God was always here even before time began!!! He has always been here!!!!!!!!!11

tbh i think this statement pretty much ends the argument, for the creationalists how is that any more beliveable than any thing else seriously all your “proof” and “fact” comes down to the words of a long dead man desparte to explain his existance.

god doesnt exist see past religion and see how the higher up religous people live

religion is a tool used by people to control the masses

religion causes wars for money not to kil the unholy people

therefore we evolved. note big bange-big crush theory.

Adrian about comment 135…..there have been fossilized footprints found…..you need to stop reading the BIASED evolutionists sites and read the truth!!!!!! Isn’t funny how scientists lie all the time. Last year our world was like what 4.6 billions years old. two years from now i bet money that scientists will say our Earth is 8 billion years old! all they do is keep pushing the date back so they can brainwash all you people on this site into believing the most stupid of all things!!!!

Let’s here what evolution really is….. there was once a bacteria that said i want to evolve. So the bacteria used his IQ of 250 to grow fins and swam. Then the fish thought “I hate the water let’s grow lungs!” So some fish magically had lungs appear while some stayed in the water. The fish who grew lungs crawled on land. Then (cause fish can have magic organs grow) fish grew wings. Some grew tails, some even grew the ability to hop! WOW!!!! Then they said let’s be monkeys..So they became monkeys once again using that amazing ability to grow different organs and body parts. Then monkeys said “I hate being hairy,let’s become human so we can adapt!! So since they were all fish, they had that amazing ability to grow differnet organs and change their entire DNA, so they becam human!! WOW!!! This is what evolution is, down to the nitty gritty. Is there any more load of BULLSHIoT anywhere in the entire world??? I don’t think so! Only in America can we come up with this!!

By your posts you obviously know a litte about science, but not enough to realize that the principal of cause and effect is bound by time. Which is to say that something happens on the timeline that causes something else to happen later on the sametime line. God is NOT bound by time which in turn means he his not bound by cause and effect. God transends time and views it all at once (this is relative of course) much like if you drew a line on a piece of paper and observed the line. To you the it would be all at once but for someone on the line they would have to take it point by point. Is this clear enough to answer your question?

Terry where you planning on making any coherent statements?

Yes, yes you are right; the almost whole entire scientific community wants to wash our brains. How fortunately are we that our hero’s the creationists come to explain us that suddenly a big rain with an amount of water that is not in 100 terrestrial atmospheres comes and whoops!! ALL species of dinosaurs (the big ones to the very small ones) disappeared because noah’s carelessness!!!!????
The next time you or a relative to you should go to the doctor, think that understanding of evolutionary processes gave the clues to develop lots of medicines. (With various pills that you surely swallowed you swallowed a piece of “evolutionary theory”) So I prefer scientific brainwashing bullshit, that gave us an increase in our lifespan of more than 25 years, that gave us cars, computers, planes, communications, sources of energy, cars, food, medicines, x rays, tomography, nuclear magnetic resonance, relativity theory that made possible satellites to orbit the earth, than your brainwashing bullshit, that gave us, wars, blood, prejudices, lack of communication and pseudoscience. And be careful, I don’t blame the whole church, just some luckily nowadays insignificant tiny ignorant racist sects.

And yes, it is demonstrated by facts and genetic diseases caused by endogamy (and beautifully explained by evolutionary genetic processes) that being related with other races Arabs and Africans included is an advantage, (united states may be an example). Is an advantage despite terrorism.

Much bacteria had IQ enough to evolve and send you to harp classes over a cloud. a big problem is that you are too much amazed with evolution.

Yeah Adrian, that bacteria does of a high IQ. what did he score again on his SAT???? Was it a 1600????? Oh, and watch out for those fish when you are at the beach…..they may use that incredibly amazing ability to grow new organs out of nothing and change their entire DNA makeup and come attack you on land. You never know. You better always be prepared!! I mean, after all, evolution is true acording to you right???????????

eh, maybe i have some million years to run away from that fish, or maybe i have time to prepare a good fire and make a delicious barbecue with this fish before it start evolving jaja. that’s the reason fishes can’t evolve any more, there is already a lot of hungry people out there!!. So if you believe that a entire person could have been created from the scratch, what is the problem about believing that the same person was created organ by organ and these organ evolved slowly like a flower opining with sunlight?

You have a big intelectual problem cretionists. Some of you critizice scientists becuase they contradict themeselves. “Any science in which everyone agrees about everything is dead” Steve Jones. Creationism is very dead.

Ok all u mad atheists, u believe that the hole universe was made by the big bang. Thirstly it doesnt take a rocket scientist to figure out that when nothing explodes with nothing it creates nothing. Science tells us that energy cant be created or destroyd, so where did all that energy come from. Secondly, everything is made up of atoms, but also an atom cant be created, as is stated in my high school sciense book. Thirdly, life comes from life or death, so that molukule u all worship must have magically appeared.

All u fools that try to figure out why God made us, and who created God, is fools indeed. God made time for us, time has a few laws, everything has a beginning, u cant go back in time etc. etc…. God is not of this world and maybe that the laws of time does not apply where He is. Now for all u spineless fools this is going to be very complicated to understand. Maybe God was there for ever, the time law of everything has a beginning may just not exist there, Oooo thats hard to grip by that pathetic sense of knowledge that u brag about. Secondly he created us because Satan tried to define God And is trying to become him. U can see how this falls into play with the new world order. Take a good look at one of those trashbins in America, aspecialy those at stadiums, U may just see an up side down 5 hook star, that is the simbol for satnism

One of ur statements u say u would be glad for life after death, but if u dont change its not going to be very nice, when u die, and u see that gray shadow (death angel) standing other u, ull find out that ur way in over ur head.

i didn’t undertood well what you wanna say mike, i smell your suspicious similarity with canes. But if you mean i will go to hell. Well, i think that the racists like canes (very similar about this with hitler and darwin (read the descent of man)) are better candidates than me. See in the bible about the good samaritan, this person doesn’t believed in God but he was good, instead, other people that were supposed to believe didn’t help their brother. Racists like canes are like this people that are supossed to believe, but didn’t love his enemies or the africans. I try, instead, being like this good samaritan, sacrifyng some of my time rescueing people like canes from his xenophobia and creationistic brainwashing.

Adrian, i like how you’re calling me a racist…I’ve put so many racist comments everywhere…YOU CAN’T EVEN FIND ONE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I really don’t appreciate someone calling me a racist with no proof. But wait…i guess that is what you do.. i mean, you believe in evolution. I lie???? I don’t think so!!!!!!!!!!!! Stop putting false comments or get the heck off this blog!!! Your an immature brainwashed human that can’t face the truth!!!!!!

Hey Adrian, if evolution is accepted as truth, Why the heck is everyone afraid of global warming????????? Tell me!!!!!!!! Because according to your dumbasz theory, we just just adapt and grow new organs, change our entire DNA Makeup, and become fish because all the glaciers melting will cause us to drown!!!! So we all adapt to the water!! Who were you saying was brainwashed??????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????

coment 113 “Oh, that also means i am related to eveyone in Africa”. I guess what is the problem about being related with african people

comment 113 “Oh, that also means i am related to eveyone in Africa”. I guess what is the problem about being related with african people.
Oh, i see that you are brainwashed with ambientalist propaganda too (greenpeace, wwf).
see junkscience page

Hmmmmm Adrian…I guess saying that i’m related to everyone in Africa means i hate them right??? I don’t think so!! I never said i hated any race or any made any racist comments. i never said anything about hating races anywhere!!!!! Shut your mouth because you are really starting to look stupid!! You remind me of the liberal Democrats that call Sean Hannity racist when in fact he has never said he hated any race or color! Just like i did. All i said was i am related to people in Africa. Yeah, that was a really a racist remark. I’m sure that offended a lot of people!

You didn’t tell me adrian, are concerned about global warming???? You should have no worries because according to you, you will adapt to the water and grow gills!!!!!!!!! WHO WAS BRAINWASHED????????????????????????????????????????????????????

I am glad you don’t hate any race; i asked you in comment 115 and obtained no answer. I recommend you to be careful before talking about Africans and hanging yourself. Don’t panic but see that you also seem very stupid to a lot of people, so for the same people a will appear like a stupid too because discussing with you. But i don’t care, i am convinced that crossing ideas even without reaching agreement is positive. In this kinds of discussion is always like that. About global worming, see the heidelberg appeal. 60 nobel prizes warns about this dangerous pseudoscientific ideas that hinder human development. Although i think there is not a source of pure true (you think that the bible has it, i don’t think so and that is the reason i find you fundamentalist) in my modest opinion i agree with this scientists and think that global worming is not true, and i am sure that is not tested enough in order to take so precipitated decisions. And even if were true, water will be far away of covering lands, so no gills needed. You are missing the point of evolution, if a rapid change occurs, there is not time for evolution. I don’t believe we will develop gills, if water covers everything we will have to adapt technologically, if we have time. Note our brains were evolved to adapt to rapid changes.

And about developing gills…what do you think you breathed inside your mother’s womb?

i mean, the mother gives the oxygen to the fetus directly, without needing your lungs. We used placenta to catch our mother’s oxygen trough her blood. With time enough and if breathing water is a real advantage, i am sure that we can develop gills. Gills are not so sophisticated, just exposed blood vessels that exchange gas with water. The problem with this is that we already developed our brains to adapt much much faster than developing gills. So this is maybe an obsolete evolutionary pathway.

i don’t think global warming is true either. there have been studies out in the country where the temperature hardly ever changes. in cities, however because all the buildings being built and everything else, the temperature rises to make it look like global warming.

Adrian take a timeout, look at what you said and think about it. “i am sure that we can develop gills. Gills are not so sophisticated, just exposed blood vessels that exchange gas with water.” Let me teach you a lesson in science. Are body doesn’t grow new organs. our body does not change the way we breathe. our body is our body. Develop gills???????? Deep in your heart, do you actually think your body can grow gills?????????? You say i am brainwashed….Well at least my brainwashing makes SENSE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! GROW GILLS???????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????

canes you don’t get it, he’s making an example of just how brainwashed you are. And your telling HIM to take a timeout well methinks YOU should “look at what you said and think about it”

So Anonymous, you are brainwashed too???????????????????????????????????????? Good grief, you think our body can change the way we breathe!!!!!! You think are body can grow new organs!!!!!!!!! you think are body can chage our entire DNA!!!!!!

I’M BRAINWASHED??????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????

You need to stop and think what you are saying….You say mine isn’t true……AT LEAST MINE MAKES SENSE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Our body, develop a way to breathe through water or grow new organs??????????????? Does anyone on this site have a brain????????????????????????????????????????

did I say our body could change the way we breate, or grow new organs, or change DNA? NO I DIDN’T! and even so, any changes such as that would be gradual. our bodies CAN change how they breath, and grow new organs, but only gradually over an incredibly long period of time!(millions of years or so) the misinterpretation is on both our parts, yours for thinking the change would be magically instant, and ours for not explaining clearly enough. but besides the point, every person on this site has a brain, the problem is your not giving us a chance to explain why were saying the things we are and you just assume we mean it the way you think we do. let us explain what we mean so you can understand where we’re coming from. that way (most) people might actually try to understand what your saying. to put it bluntly, you give us a chance, we’ll give you one.

Trust me anonymous, i don’t need to give your theory a chance at all!!!!!!!!!! I listened to it since third or fourth grade every year!!!!!!!!!! i have heard all the lies behind your theory and all the assumptions scientists have to make in order to make evolution seem remotely true. i don’t need to hear it anymore. It is all assumptions, no prrof, lies, and a load of horseshiot.

do you know what happened when Darwin first suggested this??? he was shunned and laughed at. Now you evolutionists praise him like he is your god. evolution is no more than an excuse to be your own god and not have to follow rules.

You what is funny, is that scientists don’t even give a chance for creation to be true. They spend millions of dollars every year to try to prove evolution. And guess what, they don’t even try to prove creation true. And you know why..Because if they tried they would find the truth and they don’t want that!! Scientists have you people eating out of their hands and you will listen to everything and believe anything they say! All those millions of dollars scientists spend evey year to prove evolution, guess what??? THEY CAN’T DO IT!!!!!!!!!! HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA.

Now you could say they haven’t proved creation either….but guess what….they don’t want to try to prove creation true! they don’t even give creation a chance to be true. All they do is just say “Creation is not true,but evolution is true.” And you believe them. Ok….WHERE IS THE PROOF FOR THAT STATEMENT??????????????????????????????????
they spend millions of dollars a year to prove evolution. why don’t they try that with creation??

Anything scientists say, you believe them!!!!!!!! Even when there is no proof. Get off the evolution brainwashing and open up your mind!!!!!!!!!!!

canes, true evolution hasn’t been proven yet. true they spend millions of dollars every year trying to. they don’t try that with creation because they CAN’T. because in order to prove creation they would have to find and expose “god”. which is just as hard as proving evolution. The only reasons they DO try to prove evolution are: -to prove creation they would have to find and expose “god” which is impossible
-evolution has some scatterd facts that support it, not enough to prove it but enough that they can research it
-those millions of dollars have to go somewhere

One more thing, we believe scientists because just like you, we need something to believe

they can’t prove evolution either. Mine as well try something different!!!!!!!!!

you see what i mean, instead of even considering the points we make you just automatically assume your the only one that’s right. So maybe they can’t prove evolution. it has more facts that support it than creation does, so they research it because they see it as the most logical explanation.

So put it this way. Imagine you owned a building that was slowly crumbling away. you remove everything from one room so the floor celing and walls are bare. you then seal the room off. a week later you tear down the roof of that same room, clear the rubble, and seal it again. another week later you go in and see a wallet on the floor. what would be the most logical explanation:
-it was on or inside the roof when you tore it down so it fell to the floor
-it suddenly appeared out of nowhere

You tell me which you think is more logical…oh and btw, i’m not trying to insult you i’m trying to emphasize my point.

canes, you are clearly not an expert about all the topics you talk. I mean astrophysics, genetics, molecular biology (krebs cycle). You are far away from having listened to all what you call “horseshit”. Your points are clearly simplistic my friend. I’m serious when i am talking. In 4th degree you get nothind. You must go to university. I guess in your country maybe is more economically difficult than in mine but…

Hey anonymous, you must have not done any research on evolution. All the facts are assumptions. Maybe if you looked at all the evidence, you might find out that more than 70 percent points to a young Earth, which would make evolution impossible!!

Well anonymous, your little dumb logic there just toally backfired on you. Your liitle logic in comment 171 proves evolution and the big bang theory totally false. Did the chemiclas just appear in order for us to evolve?????????????????? Did the giant mass that exploded just appear??????????????? That logic you used shows me how brainwashed you really are. You just asked a question that proves your theory wrong!!!!!!!!

if you are going to make a point, then make a point!!!!!!!!

canes, stop comparing the big bang with an explosion of one of the bombs your pirate president throws over innocent people. This kind of explosion includes chemical reactions that produce big amounts of gases that expand. Big bang does not include chemical reactions as the main source of its expansion because the elements were not formed. Big bang is a completely different thing than an explosion!!!!!!!! I insist, big bang is not considered the beginning of the beginning nowadays. See string theory!!!!!!!!!!!!! the big bang could be just a transition state between the end of a universe and the beginning of other.

you are a damn dinosaur canes, doesn’t surprisse me you don’t believe in evolution. people like you with power have allways stoped the progress of mankind. you believe that god illuminate you and you have all the true just comming from the sky to you. You must understand that the bible is far away from being the only scientific book. God knows that.
“Some people will never learn anything, for this reason, because they understand everything too soon.”
Alexander Pope

I’ve have stopped the progress of mankind????????????? Yeah right!! I’m not the one spending millions of dollars every year to prove evolution and going NOWHERE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Scientists waste their time and money every year to prove evolution and still are no more further than they were when they started!!!!!!!! No proof is even close!!!!!!!!!! I’m stopping the progress of mankind??????

canes, You can’t possibly compare the big bang to a simple explosion, 70% of facts DO NOT point to a young earth, and it’s not specifically you that’s stopping the progress of mankind its everyone thaat thinks like you, creationists that won’t even consider ideas that aren’t theirs.

If there’s one thing i hate, it’s people that don’t have a grasp on reality…your one of those people. Now if you’ll excuse me i’m going hot air ballooning with Cher, Bigfoot AND a leprechaun. Good Day!

Oh by the way anonymous, most of the facts (which is above 50 percent) do point to a young Earth.
I bet you i can find more proof of a young earth than you can of an old one!!!!!!

Assumptions, Assumptions. Assumptions. that is all evolution is!!!!!!! Scientists say this MUST HAVE HAPPENED in order to produce this, and you say “Oh they are right” even when there is no proof!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! The scientists have you right where they want you…..on strings, and whatever they do or say you will listen to them!!!!!!!!!!!!! The scientists are controlling you!!!

Anonymous, i don’t know what science books you have been reading lately, but the big bang was an explosion, a simple explosion!!!! The giant mass blew up and somehow after a massive explosion, the universe formed perfectly. I don’t know if you have blown anything up lately, but i bet you 100000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 dollars that it will cause destruction and not cause order!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Somehow after an explosion, all the planets ended in perfect ovals or ellipticals around the sun with no planets colliding into each other?? Hmmmm….explain that to me!! And the earth was put in the perfect spot!!!

WOW Explosions are Awesome!!!!!!!! This is something new!!! I have never seen an explosion that actually puts something where you want it!!! WOW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I guess we should start using explosions to renevate stadiums…after all they cause order right?????????????? The stadiums won’t blow up right????????? The stadiums will become perfect, just like what happened to our galaxy!!!!! I have one thing to say about that…. HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA…Yeah right!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Can’t you see the lies in evolution and big bang theory??

Hey anonymous, have fun in your hot air balloon! Take some pics for me!

Heh, you have a sense of humor, i like that.

Canes, there was only one sentence it that whole post that wasn’t jibberish. “explosions will cause destruction not order”. A good statement, only the “explosion” didn’t cause order the “explosion” allowed order to come into existence. If you need facts to back that up, ask someone who knows these things, i’m no genius.

If you really think you can research creationism AND find facts to support it go ahead i’m not stopping you. The question is, HOW will you prove it. You tell me.

Just a question here. If your entire family believed in evolution, and you were raised on evolution being true, would you still choose creationism.?

canes, you are behaving like a twisting reallity machine. you again start talking like big bang being an explotion. PUT THIS INTO YOUR MIND> BIG BANG IS NOT AN EXPLOTION BECAUSE NO CHEMICAL REACTIONS OCCURED!!!!!!!!!!! YOUR MIND IS LIKE A ROCK!!!!!!!!!!!!!! things explaining big bang are maybe in the quantum mechanical world!!!!!!!!!! things explaining an explotion are in the chemistry world. BIG BANG IS JUST AN ARTISTIC NAME IN ORDER TO ASSOCIATE IT WITH SOMETHING OF OUR WORLD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

And yes!!!!!!!!1 after an explosion order occurs!!!!! when the star die and explode it give place to gas clouds than then becomes a solar system because all the matter was formed in that explotion!!!!!!!!!
Of course there can be order after an explotion. I wasted my time explaining that to you in another comment!!! an explotion is a result of forces and forces are what cause order!!!!
put this important concept in your mind, and try to use it even if you don’t believe it is important!!! ORDER IS CAUSED BY FORCES, THE SAME FORCES THAT PRODUCE CHAOS

Anonymous, i can’t answer your question from comment 179. I wasn’t raised in an evolution home so i really don’t know. But if i was, i hoped i would noticed all the false lies scientists put down your throat every day in order to make you believe them. Hopefully i would have asked myself, was i an accident and have nothing to live for but die, or was i made for a purpose and have a good life to look forward too.

canes, you just proved to me your lying. If your raised on something, such as evolution,it would be near impossible, to change your mindset, unless clear, solid, VALID, proof was given. I can honestly say that if i was raised on creation being true, i wouldn’t choose evolution. What i’m trying to say is, it’s not so much what we’re told to believe, as what we want to believe

it is what we want to believe. But, can’t you see… How fine-tuned our galaxy is and how fine-tuned our bodies are??? Do you know what has to happen for a baby to be born?? Not just the sex part, but the entire process??? How does a baby form lungs, brain, fingers, toes, heart, liver, kidneys, bones, blood cells, veins, feet, hands, eyes, nose, mouth, ears, and all the rest of his body organs and body parts in his mother’s womb before being born?? How do they always end up in the same place…Brain is in your head, heart is in your chest, and so on???? Evolution??? No, it is not evolution….It is a straight up 100% MIRACLE!!!! And the miracle is from the almighty powerful God who can make anything happen!!!

they don’t always end up in the same place, and that’s called mutation, or deformation. go back to sesame street little boy!

Well you are wrong!! Name me a child that you know of that had their brain somewhere other than their head. Name a child where their fingers were their toes or their toes were their fingers!! Deformation is when the brain is deformed and messed up, not where it is put!! It is always in the head! The heart is always in their chest! A baby is not born with their heart in their stomach!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Get it right!!!! You need to go back to sesame street!!!!!!

By the way i noticed something, you can’t answer my questions!!!!!!!!!!! and i know why too!!!!!!!!! You can’t explain a baby being born with evolution!!!!!!! It is IMPOSSIBLE that all those things happen by chance!!!!!!!!!!!!! It is a miralce from the Lord!!!!!!!!! God is good!!!!!!!!!!!!

Come on anonymous tell me….How does a baby form lungs, brain, fingers, toes, heart, liver, kidneys, bones, blood cells, veins, feet, hands, eyes, nose, mouth, ears, and all the rest of his body organs and body parts in his mother’s womb before being born??

Please, if somebody believes this person see “Antennapedia” mutations in google, to see that mutations that exchange positions of different parts certanly exists in nature. In vertebrates including humans this kind of mutations use to cause spontaneous abortion. Read an embriology book like “Langman” to know how a baby develop organs. Cheers to everybody.

canes, if your gonna criticize me for not answering your questions, then you DAMN-WELL better answer ours!

Why getting fiesty anonymous….angry because you know i am right???? you know that your brilliant ideas are impossible to explain the birth of a baby and everything else in the entire universe! You can’t stand it so you get mad and curse me out. It’s ok, breathe deeply and settle down….i know it comes to a shock to you that you were wrong.

Adrian, i looked up that word you told me to in google. Sure there are mutations. Sure there is deformation. But guess what??? In humans the brain is always in the head!! I have never heard of a baby with his/her brain being in his stomach when he is born!! I am sure you haven’t either. The brain might be deformed and messed up, but it is in his/her head! It is not in his chest or stomach!!! The brain is not in his intestines or next to his kidneys!!! It is where it belongs.

because such kind of deformities causes spontaneous abortions. Imagine that an insect doesn’t care because they put eggs and fly away. A vertebrate mother have to confrontate an unnecessary cost developing a baby like this. Abortions occurs in the first stages of pregnancy because the baby can’t pass some “good quality tests” like implantation in the womb, etc.

Abortion is the sadest thing ever to happen in America!!!!! Actually, it is tied with gay marriages

canes, i’m mad at you because there’s been maybe one question, out of all the one’s we’ve asked that you’ve given an answer to…an answer than makes sense anyways. Yet, you dare get all pissy at me for not answering ONE of yours! What clubbed you over the head when you were a baby?!

Abortion is sad i agree. But you can’t prevent spontaneous ones, they are natural and they are the reason why you can’t see large deformities in humans

Hey anonymous, the doctor thought i was too ugly so he hit me really hard on the head.

the doctor said “we did everything… but he came out anyway”

Hey anonymous, first of all, you haven’t given me a real answer for any of my questions yet either. All your answers have no proof and no facts to support it……so guess what, you haven’t given me an answer either. Give me some real facts and not false facts you get from scientists. As far as i’m concerned you haven’t answered me yet.

so scientist’s have false facts do they? i guess a decomposing book written by some old bast–d to try and prove his existence has all the right ones then, that is the biggest load of bull–it i’ve ever heard. both me, adrian, and the others have given you clear, solid facts…only problem is your too god da-n blind to see. Faith is a thief canes, faith has stolen what little sight you were born with so a mentally retarded mole could see better than you…

“….have given you clear, solid facts”

Yeah….name one. You name me one fact that supports any of your theories that has no assumptions and evidence to back it up.

By the way, you haven’t answered me about the baby yet…….I wonder why??????

yes, scientists are all wrong. So we do not have computers, cars, TV, satellites are all a lie and the bright points flying in the sky are not a proof, not an aspirin, no industry, atomic theory is a lie because you can’t see the atoms, so go tell your president lets north corea continue with their nuclear program because it is all a lie from scientists that wants to brainwash as. Happy comment 200 to everybody!

Read “langman” idiot, is based on what is seen in hospitals, not assumptions. this is fantastic, i feel like time travelling to the times of the stupids that killed Galileo that deny the truth he clearly showed. The more we demonstrate the worst.

Adrian, computers isn’t a theory is it. Neither is anything up in comment 201!!!!!!!! I don’t know if you know what this blog is about, but it is about evolution vs creation. Your genius friend anonymous, said “…have given you clear, solid facts.”
To support what??? Computers and atomic theory??? No, those are proven and have facts behind them!!! You haven’t given me any solid facts at all!!! All your facts have assumptions and no proof. Get off the idea that i think scientists don’t help us in technology. They have discovered many things that i know will improve our world in the coming years. Stop changing the subject and posting lies or get off!!

So express yourself correctly!!! stop with this crap about “scientists” being all liars!
And Embriology science (i insist read langman) is not about assumptions!
Good assumptions are not bad! I assume for example that God is not so stupid as you pretend him to be, about creating a world that doesn’t change, a nature that doesn’t create anything new, because that is all what evolution is about. Think about it.

please can you help me about my research “Digestive system diseases using expert systems ”
send any information to my E-mail :mogaah76@yahoo.com

are there any christians that believe in evolution in this blog?

I’ve read among these statements that evolution has been proven. By whom, may I ask? Nowhere in all of sciencekomm has the origin of life been proven. It has been hypothesised, it has been surmised, but it has yet to be proven. There are no such things as MISSING LINKS so how are they going to be found? We are asked to use our rational minds to believe that these men of science know what their talking about. AAH, but there’s the rub, their asking us to have faith. And here I thought only God asked for such things.

Hmm.

Just as creation cannot be proved, neither can evolution. Richard Dawkins, in his book The God Delusion, states that natural selection is quite simple. He believes that a Creator God is very improbable and also irrational because it does not prove the origin of that God. Who created the Creator? It doesn’t make sense that God would just begin to exist or that he has always existed. But what about the opposite side of that? What about Dawkins point. How can natural selection make sense if there is no origin from evolution. Sure things evolve, but what did it first evolve from? Isn’t it just as improbale that something was evolved out of nothing? The argument for evolution and natural selection makes no sense then.

Hey sarah, someone has always had to be here from the beginning. God was not created, he has always been here. In the bible it says God had been here before time began. Don’t you get it….someone has always had to be here! God was the person. Evolution is all assumptions and lies! Scientists should take the time to try to prove creation wrong instead of blowing it off and saying that is not possible with no proof!!!!!!!!!!

Canes, someTHING had to be here from the beginning not someONE. Everything started from nothing, everything will end in nothing. that isn’t a very complicated concept to grasp, you cannot say that “without god therw would have been no beginning, because nothing IS the beginning, and will be the end as well. The fact that everything is perfect isn’t coincidence, it also isn’t by the planning of some “almighty god” *spits* it is the fabric of time itself. I’m no rocket scientist so i can’t give you an in depth explanation so i’ll make it breif. Time exists through nothing, and it is a thread that has already been planned out, it cannot be altered or shattered. Do not ask me for more, i don’t understand it myself, and just as the universe does, that conspect humbles those who dare to try to understand it…it cannot be understood. i know that was really jumbled, i can explain myself later but i’m in a massive hurry…as for everyone else, please don’t take this the wrong way, evolution is still the correct way.

Frank… the missing link is an old argument from people that have questioned evolution theory… but in times of Darwin. Is refered as a link between man and monkey. Now not one, but LOTS OF MISSING LINKS (a whole genealogical tree) have been found. Australopithecus aferensis, Pitecantropus erectus, homoerectus are some of them that I remember now without any research but there are many more. In New York you can see the skeleton of “Lucy” as an example.

And canes#1 @@@@ in the blog. Scientific community, even people that are convinced about evolution does not deny creation in most cases. Not even R. Dawkins, that only say that is not probable, you are the only massively closed mind people. The only thing that is categorically denied by almost everyone (not just scientists) is some philosophically retarded interpretations of the bible that denies evolution.

No serious scientist deny creation because it is a topic not reachable by scientific analysis. This is your only merit, you study what the rest of the world is convinced to be a stupidity (scientifically studying creation). I guess it is part of evolution H. sapienz sapienz having the advantage of people reviewing what is considered obvious (like the 10% of the bees looking for new flowers). So we can’t convince you about your obvious mistake. The more stupid the lie you defend, the more closed minded is needed (in order to continue) and more reduced (in order not to waste to many people) will be the group that dedicate to study it. Some of them will be right, and will be considered uncomprenhended geniuses. You are an interesting part of evolution canes.

Adrian, once again you are lieing to everyone!!!!!!!!!! There have been no missing links found to this date!!!!! You are right, scientists have said that Lucy was a missing link, but guess what…….If you would read and get your facts right, that have said that lucy was not a missing link!!!!!!!! All scientists want to do is everything they find call it the missing link!! But guess what, they haven’t found one yet!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Now explain that one Adrian and all you evolutionists you are on strings controlled by scientists!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Adrian, what would happen to you if you were put in a freezer for 2 months with no clothes??????????????????????? Would you grow fur and adapt or die????????? you know what,i am going to try that and see what happens. After all, according to your brilliant theory, i should grow fur!!! HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA. YEAH RIGHT!!!!!!!

Canes – huh?

Things are either contingent (dependent upon something else) or necessary (independent of everything else). With respect then to a creator God and the universe there are five and only five possibilities. These are:

A) Contingent God, Contingent universe – we can discount this because believers themselves tell us God doesn’t depend for his existence on something else

B) Contingent God, Necessary Universe – a necessary universe does not require a God to start it off, much less a contingent God which we’ve already discounted above

C) Necessary God, Necessary Universe – as above a necessary universe does not require a God and therefore this too can be discounted

D) Necessary God, Contingent Universe – the classical theistic interpretation. We can discard this on the grounds of causality which always takes place against the background of the universe and most especially time. One cannot discuss cause without reference to the universe or time ALREADY pre-exisiting without using the word “cause” to mean something other than what we understand by “cause”. To say that God “caused” the universe to be is as intelligible as saying God “flimbled” the universe to be. I don’t know what you mean, and nor do you. You cannot tell me how “flimbling” works or indeed how you can “flimble” BEFORE TIME ITSELF has even be created. You are talking, literally, nonsense.

This only leaves………

E) The existence of the universe is necessary. That is to say, the matter and energy which constitute the universe have always existed in some form or another. They now hold this shape, prior to this particular span of the universe they held some other shape. And so on and so forth.

This argument goes to the Taoists/Buddhists who say the universe is eternal if it has to go to any religion at all (which it doesn’t). Tough luck Christians, that’s the way it is.

As we look back in time with ligth comming from the very beginning of the universe’s beginning we can se what happened as soon as 10^-43 seconds after the start. Thus, at this point, science cannot yet tell us how the universe formed from nothing. This clearly shows the limitations of the scientific method. However, most scientists believe in a Big Bang. Well, Christianity clearly supports a beginning. Whatever has a beginning has someone who started it.

So have any of you brainwashed scientist pawns got it yet?? Or are you still blinded to the truth??

that was two very interesting points u have made!! i am fascinated in the theory of evoluion and creation. i am actually doing an assignment on it now. anyways… i am not sure what to believe in. i mean if adam and eve had two sons then how did they populate the world??? n in the bible god sounds like a complete control freak. and one more poin i do not believ in is u can be the best person in the world, u can b nice, kind genorous and b undesided weather u believe in god and not but u will still go to hell. then you hear about these mass murderers who have become a born again christian and they go to heaven. im sorry but that just doesn’t make sence. i am not saying that creation is not tru i just had a few quires.

God forgives everyone who comes to Him, no matter what your sins were in the past. God says the only way to get to Heaven is through Jesus Christ. If you don’t know Jesus, then you will not get to Heaven, no matter what you do. Mass murderers can be forgiven, God doesn’t care what you did in th past as long as you ask for forgiveness and come to Him. There have been many well known stars that have come to Christ including Dion Sanders, Stephen Baldwin (Alec’s brother) and many others.

Creation or evolution, you said “if adam and eve had two sons then how did they populate the world???” Well this does sound farfetched but it is true. If you look back on the population increses every year, you can see a pattern. With the population we have right now in the world, you can go back about 6-7 thousand years and trace it back to two people, those people are Adam and Eve. Check it out yourself, it is pretty amazing!!!

no, your all wrong. Zeus is going to roast you on a spit.

Evolution is a stupid theory thought up by theorists to destroy the faith of Christianity. Darwin was hired to go on the ship and think of a way to tear down Christianity. Everyone says evolution is science!!!!! Bullcrap!!!!! Science has an observation, hypothesis, experiment, analyzing data, and drawing conclusions. That is what science is!!!!!! Science can repeat itself!!! I haven’t seen evolution in a long time….Oh wait…..NO ONE HAS!!!!!!!!! So wait….NO ONE has seen evolution, NO FACTS have been found to support it, NO fossils have been found to prove ANYTHING!!! Why is this taught as fact in public schools?????????

Any evolutionists on sight???? Now please tell me…..according to you, the animals evolved because of a mutation in their genes correct????

Come on Evolutionists!!!! Did you finally come to your senses and realize that we are just too complex to have evolved???? Or do you not want to admit it??? Take your time…..

To: all creationist I have question.
Why do you think people in all walks of life educated or not feel the need to believe in higher powers?

To: all evolutionist if universe has a beging
and there an ending what was there before the begining and whats after the end think?

after the end do yuo think?

caine- what are you saying?
bothers are fags?????? how do have kids????? I guess populate the planet through their a-hole??????

Caine-was’ent the world fluded and killed every one earth less noha and his family?
how can you go back adam and eve????

bull dog-hope you don,t but if you ever get sick or aquire some disabilitating disease please don’t go to the hospital to all those scientist but just pray and should fix you right up……

What happens when you die and go to hell Cysion????? That is what i thought. You have NO idea what you are talking about, so please do us a favor, and stop rambling on about Bible stuff that you have no idea about!!!!!!!! And do us all a favor and please type in English!!!!!!!

canes, you still believe that bush is a good president?

Of course i do!! Do i think he makes all the right decisions…of course not!!! Do i think he is the right person to be leading our country..ABSOLUTELY!! He might not make all the right decisions, but he makes America safe!!! Bill Clinton was in office for 8 years ands didn’t to SH@T to the terrorists. What happened in 2001???? They attacked us!!! Clinton let them go and did not monitor them and they got us!!!! At least we have a President that stays on the offensive and keeps the terrorists on the ropes!!! Heck thanks to wiretapping and incresed security from Bush, we have stopped at least 2 terror attacks!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! (The airplane attacks over the Atlantic, the New York airport bombings) He might not be perfect, but he is the best President for our country in the times we are in!!!!

I really enjoyed reading this post and the first 20 or so comments.

I commented on my blog instead of this one to start a new thread: http://cornerstonethoughts.netized.com

Kindests,

I like to entertain the idea that God created everything, including the seemingly evolved existence of our planet’s life forms.

And, looking into string theory (quantum physics), I believe God is evident; the energy variances (the strings) that everything can be reduced to is God’s will for our existence.

i see that canes is wrong again. Bush can´t prevent tons of drugs crossing the border with mexico, if anyone wants to introduce a small nuclear device in new york you r fucked. A person i know crossed the frontier as a “coyote” some years ago with no problem. thanks to bush you have one of the greatest economic disasters in the history. bush didn´t only screwed US but the whole world. You should´ve been in argentina under military goverment in order to stop talking this amount of crap. In irak 300000 orphans thanks to his father… some fanatics make me sick.

Nice…

Well anonymous, if a democrat comes gets into office, the whole country is f*cked!!!! They are weak on national security and they want to have national health care!!!! So good luck getting emergency surgery for a tumor that needs to be removed immediately bacause you will peobably have to wait about 5 months like they do in Canada and Sweden right now!!! The Dems are pussies and they don’t understand that it is better to fight the war in Iraq than on our own turf. Who wants a President in office that is going to screw our national security and not capture terrorists when a country offers him to you twice…..OH WAIT, WE ALREADY HAD ONE!!!!! THANK YOU DEMS!!!!!!!!!!!! CLINTON ROCKS!!!!! Maybe if Clinton would have concentrated on our country instead of who he was going to get a blow job by next, we would be a hell of a lot better off right now! The WTC would still be standing!!!

Nice…

Gay Marriages are horrible! God created Adam and Eve, NOT Adam and Steve.

AUTHENTIC RECORD OF GEOLOGY. SCIENTIST CAN’T CALCULATE THE AGE OF THE EARTH.
Regarding the scientific explanation of the earth’s creation, there are ways to know it by natural speculation or by a historical record. A cording to natural speculation, one meditates observe and conjectures about the creation. In a historical record, we go by what it says.
Consider this:
The earth does not have six thousand years it has billion of years.
It was created, then judge, became void, the big bang happened, finally restored.
We believe that the entire Bible is the Word of God, and every word of it is inspired. A very grievous thought in the mind of godly ones is that men have despised and opposed His Word. God’s children are grieved because men do not respect God’s statutes. Among the sixty-six books of the Bible, Genesis has been subjected to the most doubt. Those who oppose the Bible often try to overturn God’s clear revelation with geological ages and prehistoric discoveries. The evidences in geology prove to them that the earth has been in existence for tens of thousands of years, and that the record of six thousand years of history in the Bible is untrustworthy.
In the name of science, the world hurls its attacks on the book of Genesis. Many dear brothers in the Lord are not that scholarly (the author being one of them) and become lost in this storm. Although geology does not form part of our meditation, for the benefit of all, we will study the Word of God by the Lord’s grace at the commencement of our meditation and will consider how perfect is His Word, so that we can silently behold His beauty in His presence.
Genesis is God’s revelation, while geology is man’s invention. God knows the whole truth. As such, His revelation can never be wrong. Man only sees in part. As such, his conjectures are not accurate. When we place Genesis side by side with geology, we should follow Genesis and not geology, because it is God who stands behind Genesis. If there are any basic differences between Genesis and geology, the error must be on the side of geology. The authority of the Bible is undisputed. Everything that is contrary to the Bible is wrong. Thank God our Father that He has given us such a complete revelation. If there are any incompatibilities between God and man, we would rather give up man and accept God.
Men often laugh at the ridiculous stories of creation circulated among the Chinese, the Babylonians, and other countries. No scientist has to spend much effort to refute these myths. The reason is that there is not much weight to these traditions. This is why they have not attracted much attention.
But men’s attitudes towards the Bible are very different. The very fact that they have tried their best to resist the Bible proves the power of the Bible. They cannot treat the Bible the same as the traditions of the nations because they have recognized the extraordinary nature of the Bible.
All those who have read Genesis 1 cannot fail to marvel at the beauty of its record. How ordinary it is, yet how marvelous! It is a plain record and contains no theory or arguments to prove its authenticity. The writer of the book was not bound by the book, but was transcendent above its record. The true author of the book is the One who is far above the universe it describes—God. Had the recorder of the book, Moses, written this book according to his own learning and ideas, his thoroughly Egyptian-trained intellect would surely have been influenced by the Egyptian theory of creation. Yet who can detect a trace of Egyptian philosophy in Genesis 1? Why is this? It is because God was the One who inspired Moses to do the writing. Otherwise, how could Moses know that the land came out of the water? This is, of course, a fact established by geology and is a modern discovery.
Had Moses not been inspired, it would be difficult to explain this fact. As to the development of life on earth, although the Bible does not support the theory of evolution, it does not altogether reject the fact that there was a progression.
First, there were aquatic organisms, and then there was man. Would not a scientist marvel at the record of Moses? The omniscient God must surely have given inspiration according to facts; those who were inspired by such an omniscient God cannot be in error. Yet the Bible is not a textbook of science. Its goal is to guide sinners “unto salvation through the faith which is in Christ Jesus” (2 Tim. 3:15).
Nevertheless, the Bible does not contain any scientific errors. If there are any contradictions with science, it is either a misinterpretation of the Scripture or a misjudgment of science. Many of the definitive statements by geologists in the past have been overturned! Many of their assertions have been proven wrong.
Cummings said, “Geology has made mistakes in the past. It is possible that it will be wrong again. The hasty and loud assertions by those who are not too familiar with its theories may be proved inaccurate again.”Since the Bible is not a science textbook, it only mentions the “what’s” of creation without mentioning the “whys.” Science is interested in the “whys.” Of course, in many cases it is successful in doing this. But one must not overturn the “what’s” with theoretical “whys” just because man’s finite mental research has come into conflict with God’s record. What God said are the facts because He knows everything. If the world wants to study what God has said and why He has said it, it must not hold on to its own ideas while rejecting God’s authority. It is a good thing to have wisdom, but there is one kind of foolishness which is more blessed.
Among Christians, there is a popular theory that Genesis 1:1 is a kind of general introduction, and that the work of the six days is actually an expansion of the record of verse 1. In other words, they consider the words “In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth” as merely a subject of Genesis 1. They say that in the first sentence the writer wrote down a summary of what he was about to say, after which he went at length into an explanation of this sentence.
After telling us that God created the heaven and the earth, Genesis goes on to tell us the condition of the earth after creation, and how He created light, air, the land, the plants, and the animals day by day. This popular theory considers Genesis 1 as a record of the creation of the universe, and that the universe was created out of desolation.
If we study the first chapter of the Bible carefully, we will see the error in this supposition! This erroneous supposition, not the Bible itself, has put the church into a great debate with the world. This supposition gives men the excuse to say that Genesis is incompatible with geology and casts doubts in the minds of many young people concerning the accuracy of the Bible. In Hebrew, the original language, there are altogether seven words in Genesis 1:1. Each of these seven words has independent meanings. God’s inspired record does not say that at the beginning of time, God molded the heavens and the earth into being, or that He made them out of some elements. It says that the heavens and the earth were created. How clear is the word created!
To create is to make something out of nothing; it is to create something out of void. It is not to make something out of some existing elements. The word create is Bara in the original language. “In the beginning , God Bara the heaven and the earth” (Gen. 1:1). The word Bara is used three other times in Genesis 1 and 2:
(1) “And God created (Bara) great whales, and every living creature that moved, which the waters brought forth abundantly, after their kind, and every winged fowl after his kind: and God saw that it was good” (v. 21).
(2) “So God created (Bara) man in his own image” (v. 27a).
(3) “In it he had rested from all his work which God created (Bara) and made” (2:3b).
To create is to make something out of nothing. The great whales and every living creature do not have an outward body only, but a life-element within them. The only way that this can be done is through God’s direct work of creation. This is why it says that God created the great whales and every living creature (1:21). There is a very good reason for the Bible to say “created” instead of “made.”
In the same way, although man’s body was made from the dust, 2:7 tells us that man has a spirit and a soul which cannot be made from any physical material. This is why the Bible says that God created man according to His own image. In Genesis 2 there are three words for the act of creation:
(1) Bara, which means to make something out of nothing. We have covered this briefly.
(2) Asah, which means to make. This word is very different from the first. Bara is to make something out of nothing, while asah means that there is some raw material first, and then something is made out of the raw material. A carpenter can make a chair, but he cannot create a chair. In describing most of the work during the six days, this word is used.
(3) Yatsar, which means to complete, has the sense of a potter molding a piece of clay into shape. This is the word used for formed in 2:7. Isaiah 43:7 shows the relationship between these three words: “Everyone who is called by my name, whom I have created, formed, and even made for my glory.” To create is to make something out of nothing, to form is to mold into shape, and to make is to work from some material.
Genesis 1:1 uses the word Bara. The phrase in the beginning is a further proof that God created the heavens and the earth out of nothing. There is no need of any hypothesis. Since God has said this, man should believe. If man wants to fathom God’s work in the beginning with his finite mind, he will only expose his own presumptuousness! “By faith we understand that the universe has been framed by the word of God” (Heb. 11:3).
Furthermore, who can answer God’s challenge to Job concerning the creation? God created the heaven and the earth in the beginning. The heaven does not refer to the heaven that surrounds our earth but rather to the heaven of the stars. This “heaven” has not changed since the creation of the universe. Although the heaven has never changed, the condition on earth has changed! If we want to understand Genesis 1, it is very important to differentiate between the earth in verse 1 and the earth in verse 2. The condition of the earth in verse 2 was not the condition at the beginning of God’s creation.
In the beginning when God created the heaven and the earth, His creation was perfect. God is not a God of confusion (1 Cor. 14:33). Therefore, the condition of void and confusion in verse 2 was not the original condition at the time of God’s creation. How could God possibly have created an earth that was void and without form?
We can answer this question by reading one verse alone.
“For thus says Jehovah, Who created the heavens. He is the God . Who formed the earth and made it; He established it; He did not create it waste, But He formed it to be inhabited: I am Jehovah and there is no one else” (Isa. 45:18).
How clear this is! The word waste in this verse is the same as the word without form in Genesis 1:2, which thou are in Hebrew. Unfortunately, translators of the Bible have not used the same word in both places. “He did not create it [the earth] without form.” Why then does Genesis 1:2 say that “the earth was without form”? It is easy to find the solution.
In Genesis 1:1, God created the heavens and the earth. The earth that God created then was not void and without form. Later there was a cataclysm, and the earth became without form and void. Verse 3 does not refer to the original creation, but to a restored earth.
In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth, and then during the six days, He re-created the world. The world in Genesis 1:1 was the original world, while the world in 1:3 is our present world.
Genesis 1:2 describes the transitional condition of desolation after the initial world and prior to our present world. We do not base our explanation on Isaiah 45:18 alone (even though Isaiah 45:18 alone is sufficient as a proof). We have other evidences. According to Bible scholars, in Hebrew the first word in verse 2 is a conjunction, which should be translated as and. “In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth, and the earth was without form, and void.”The “and,” according to Hebrew usage—as well as that of most other languages—proves that the first verse is not a compendium of what follows, but a statement of the first event in the record.For if it were a mere summary, the second verse would be the actual commencement of the history, and certainly would not begin with a copulative. A good illustration of this may be found in the fifth chapter of Genesis (Gen. 5:1). There the opening words, “This is the book of the generations of Adam,” are a compendium of the chapter, and, consequently, the next sentence begins without a copulative. — G.H. Pember, Earth’s Earliest Ages, 1942, reprinted 1975, p. 31.“Therefore, what follows in Genesis 1:2 is not a detailed explanation of the record in 1:1, but an independent, distinct, and later event”. The creation of the heavens and the earth is one thing, and the earth becoming without form and void is another. Later we will explain why the earth became void and without form. About a hundred years ago, Dr. Chalmers pointed out that the word was in “the earth was without form” should be translated became. Dr. I.M. Haldeman, G.H. Pember, and others also pointed out that this word is the same as the word became used in Genesis 19:26. “And she became a pillar of salt.” If the same word is translated became in 19:26, why should it not be translated the same way here? Even the word became in 2:7 is the same word as in 1:2. Therefore, it is not hypothetical to translate 1:2 the following way: “And the earth became without form.” When God created the heavens and the earth, the earth was not without form and void. Later it became such. Let us read a few more verses:”In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth” (Gen. 1:1). “For in six days the Lord made heaven and earth, the sea,and all that in them is” (Exo. 20:11).
Comparing these two verses, we can see that the world in Genesis 1:1 was very different from the world in 1:3. In the beginning, God created the heaven and the earth, but in the six days, God made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that is in them. There is a vast difference between create and make. One is to have something from nothing, while the other is to improve the things that are in existence. The world can make, but it cannot create, while God can both create and make. This is why Genesis says that “in the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.” Later because of the cataclysm, the earth became desolate, and “in six days the Lord made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is” (Exo. 20:11).Second Peter 3:5 through 7 says the same thing. The heavens and the earth in verse 5 are the heaven and the earth in Genesis 1:1. Verse 6 speaks of the world flooded with water, which is the earth that was without form and void and that was under the water in Genesis 1:2. “The heavens and earth now” in verse 7 is the restored world after Genesis 1:3. There is a clear difference between God’s work in the six days and His work of creation at the beginning. The more we read Genesis 1, the more we will see that our explanation above is the proper one.
In the first day light was called into being. Before the first day there was already land, but it was “without form and void” and was buried in the deep under the water. On the third day God did not create the land; He merely caused it to appear.
F.W. Grant said that the work of the six days merely put a new order to the earth; it did not create something out of nothing. The earth was there already. The Bible never says that the earth was created during the six days. Grant also said, “At which point did the first day begin? Some may think that it began from desolation. Yet this is not true. The `evening’ on the first day indicates light had been there since the beginning. `The darkness he called Night,’ yet the `evening’ is a darkness that is already under the control of light.”In the first day God did not create the light; He merely caused the light to appear on the darkened earth.
In the same way in the second day, He did not create the heaven. The heaven there was not the heavens, but the atmospheric “heaven” which surrounds the earth. This was not created then. Where then did the atmosphere come from? Our answer is that it was created in verse 1. Therefore, there was no need now to create; there was only the need to restore.”In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.” There is no detailed discussion here. We do not know if the primordial world was created in an instant or became what it was through an endless period of time. We do not know if it was completed in a few thousand years or millions of years. We do not know the shape and the size of it. All that we know is that “in the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.” We do not know how many years there were between verses 1 and 2 of Genesis 1. We do not know how long ago God created the heaven and the earth, and we do not know how many years after the creation of the primordial world did the desolation of verse 2 occur. But we believe that there was a long period of time between the perfect creation at the beginning and the later change into something that was without form and void.”In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.” How much later was it that “the earth became without form and void”? We cannot tell. But we know one thing: there was a long gap between the two expressions. This long gap between the first two verses of Genesis covers the whole prehistoric period.
But from verse 3 until now there are less than six thousand years. Since we have proved that there is a big gap between the first two verses of the Bible, all the years which geology demands to exist and all the geological periods associated with these years can fall within this period. We do not know how much time passed on the earth and how many changes occurred on the earth’s surfaces and in the atmosphere before there was the condition of void and formlessness; the Bible does not say anything about it.
But we can say for sure that the Bible never says that our earth is only six thousand years old. The Bible only testifies that there are six thousand years of human history. If the Bible has not said something, science can conjecture all it wants. But science cannot form conjectures on what the Bible has already said. After we understand the first two verses of the Bible, we can be assured that there is no contradiction between the Bible and geology. All the attacks by geology on the Bible are beating the air.
How wonderful is the Word God has written! We are not saying this to please science. God’s revelation never wavers before man. We do not give up the Bible’s authority in order to accommodate man’s inventions. If there are any contradictions between the Bible and science, (and we would expect there to be some, because fleshly man is always at enmity with God), we have no intention to reconcile and annul these differences. The above assertion was not proposed after some geological discoveries, in an effort to reconcile the Bible with science.
There were men in the ancient church who spoke about this. At that time, geology was not yet in existence! When men like St. Augustus interpreted Genesis, the world did not yet have the term geology! A Christian does not trust in human wisdom, but in God’s Word. We need nothing other than the sure rock of the Bible. As long as we have the “it is written” (Matt. 4:6) in the Scripture, everything is solved.
Unfortunately, many apologetics have forgotten their ground; they change the words of the Scripture to accommodate man’s teaching. An example is given by A.W. Pink, who noted that after the translation of a certain Assyrian tablet, the apologetics enthusiastically reported that much of the Old Testament history was verified! This turns things upside down! Does the Word of God need verification? If the record on the Assyrian tablet coincides with that of the Bible, it only shows that the Assyrian tablets have no historical error. If they do not agree, it merely proves that the tablets are in error. Worldly men and vain scientists will of course scorn at our logic. But this only goes to demonstrate God’s Word which says, “But a soul’s man does not receive the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him and he is not able to know them because they are discerned spiritually” (1 Cor. 2:14).
We must never lower ourselves to appease men. It seems like a good idea to change the Bible to suit man’s taste, but doing so changes the true nature of the Bible. How wonderful is Genesis 1! It devotes only one verse to the description of the first creation! It uses only one verse to describe the desolation of the world! This is far less than the thirty or so verses that describe the restoration of the world! Who can come up with a composition that matches the record of Genesis 1?
The subject is difficult, yet the explanation is clear; the facts span a long time, yet the description is simple. It does not talk about science, yet it is scientifically accurate. Who except God can compose such writing? The reason God did not say more than this is that He only intended to show man His own relationship with man. J.N. Darby said: This revelation from God is not a history by Him of all that He has done, but what has been given to man for his profit, the truth as to what he has to say to. Its object is to communicate to man all that regards his own relationship with God…But historically the revelation is partial. It communicates what is for the conscience and spiritual affections of man…Thus no mention is made of any heavenly beings…Thus also, regards this earth, except the fact of its creation, nothing is said of it beyond what relates to the present form of it. — The Synopsis of the Books of the Bible, reprinted 1970, p. 9.
Indeed, God’s revelation is not given to satisfy human curiosity, but to manifest His Godhead, the world’s sinfulness, the way of salvation, and the coming glory and judgments. The present worldly knowledge is indeed dangerous. Unless God bestows grace on man, man would boast in himself and use the knowledge he acquires as a basis to oppose God. How difficult it is for an intellectual person to humble himself! Man can search for knowledge as much as he wants. But God will not supplement this with His revelation. This is why He does not say much in Genesis 1. Our present need is not more science, but deeper spiritual fellowship. Only this will reap real fruit in eternity. We have to praise God the Father because He is full of love! He not only created us, but re-created us, and made us a new creation in the Lord Jesus. Lord Jesus! How sweet is this name! God has given us His Son. What a marvelous grace this is!
THE ORIGINAL WORLD AND AFTERWORDS DESOLATIONIn the beginning God created the heavens and the earth perfect. Later, after an unknown period of time, the earth which was originally good became waste and empty, without any life whatsoever. God then rose up to recreate the world; He restored the desolate world in six days. Now we will consider why the world became desolate. How could God allow the work of His hands to be destroyed? Why did such a catastrophe come upon the once beautiful earth? There is probably no other reason besides sin. The question we are considering has no perfectly clear explanation in the Bible.
Nevertheless, we can find many shimmering lights in the Word of God which will enlighten us concerning this question and which will enable us to have a little more understanding concerning the former world and the cause of its desolation. Only the Word of God can guide us and our thoughts.
The understanding of His Word, regardless of the question being discussed, always brings us edification. The greatest vanity is the reasoning’s in man’s mind which do not rest on the foundation of God’s Word. Although in reading Genesis 3 we cannot find Satan’s name, we all know that the serpent was Satan’s vessel and perhaps was even the embodiment of the devil. Revelation 12:9 say, “And the great dragon was cast down, the ancient serpent, he who is called the Devil and Satan, he who deceives the whole inhabited earth.”
Genesis 1 gives no record of the creation of Satan. Where did he come from? This is a problem. Furthermore, we can see many evil spirits in both the Old and New Testaments; we meet them even more frequently in the Gospels. Where did they come from? We also do not see the creation of angels in the six days of work in Genesis 1. Where, then, did the angels who are frequently mentioned in the Bible come from? These questions are all related to our subject.
Since the creation of the angels and the other supernatural beings is not recorded in Genesis 1, which covers the work of God during six days, we know that they were not created during that time. Since they were not created within these six days, when were they created?
The only explanation is that they were creatures of the former world—the original, perfect world. As the fossil remains clearly show, not only were disease and death—inseparable companions of sin—then prevalent among the living creatures of the earth, but even ferocity and slaughter.
And the fact proves that these remains have nothing to do with our world; since the Bible declares that all things made by God during the Six Days were very good, and that no evil was in them till Adam sinned…Since, then, the fossil remains are those of creatures anterior to Adam, and yet show evident tokens of disease, death, and mutual destruction, they must have belonged to another world and have a sin-stained history of their own, a history which ended in the ruin of themselves and their habitation. — G. H. Pember, Earth’s Earliest Ages, 1942, reprinted 1975, pp. 34-35.
By reading Jeremiah 4:23-26, we see the reason why the earth became waste and emptiness. Verse 26 says that it was due to “His [Jehovah's] burning anger.” Why was the Lord so angry? It was probably because of the sin of the creatures at that time.
Isaiah 24:1 says that “Jehovah now makes the earth desolate.” Why would the Lord destroy the earth of His original creation? Judging from the history of our own world, we can answer that it was probably because of the sin of the earth’s inhabitants which forced God to judge them. We have said before that when we read Genesis, we do not see the origin of Satan. As we look into the cause of earth’s desolation in the beginning, our mind will naturally think “an enemy has done this” (Matt. 13:28).
Other than attributing the cause to Satan, it seems that we cannot find any other clues in the Bible. We will study a portion of the Bible which seems to tell us the origin of God’s enemy and thereby we may know the condition of the former world and the cause of its becoming desolate. Let us now read Ezekiel 28:1-19. These nineteen verses are divided into two sections: (1) verses 1-10 concern the prophet’s warning to the prince of Tyrus, and (2) verses 11-19 concern the prophet’s lamentations upon the king of Tyrus. The first section, a word to the prince of Tyrus, is easy to understand. He was exalted with pride, considered himself God, and thought that he was wiser than Daniel. Due to his progress in commerce, he became puffed up. Therefore God punished him, causing him to be slain and destroyed by the terrible of the nations. Soon after this prophecy, Nebuchadnezzar of the Chaldeans came and destroyed Tyre. Josephus believed that the prince of Tyrus was Ithobalus, who was called Ithobaal II in the history of the Phoenicians. Since we know that this prophecy has already been fulfilled, it is not difficult for us to interpret verses 1 through 10. But when we read on from verses 11 through 19, we find many places that we do not understand. Since this portion of the Word is very much related to the subject which we are studying now, we quote the text in full:
Moreover the word of the Lord came unto me, saying, Son of man, take up a lamentation upon the king of Tyrus, and say unto him, Thus saith the Lord God; Thou seals up the sum, full of wisdom, and perfect in beauty. Thou hast been in Eden the garden of God; every precious stone was thy covering, the sardius, topaz, and the diamond, the beryl, the onyx, and the jasper, the sapphire, the emerald, and the carbuncle, and gold: the workmanship of thy tabrets and of thy pipes was prepared in thee in the day that thou was created. Thou art the anointed cherub that covered; and I have set thee so: thou was upon the holy mountain of God; thou hast walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire. Thou was perfect in thy ways from the day that thou was created, till iniquity was found in thee. By the multitude of thy merchandise they have filled the midst of thee with violence, and thou hast sinned: therefore I will cast thee as profane out of the mountain of God: and I will destroy thee, O covering cherub, from the midst of the stones of fire. Thine heart was lifted up because of thy beauty; thou hast corrupted thy wisdom by reason of thy brightness: I will cast thee to the ground, I will lay thee before kings, that they may behold thee. Thou hast defiled thy sanctuaries by the multitude of thine iniquities, by the iniquity of thy traffic; therefore will I bring forth a fire from the midst of thee, it shall devour thee, and I will bring thee to ashes upon the earth in the sight of all them that behold thee. All they that know thee among the people shall be astonished at thee: thou shalt be a terror, and never shalt thou be any more (Ezek. 28:11-19).
This section is indeed hard to understand, for it contains many expressions which cannot be applied to any mortal man.
If the “king of Tyrus” were only a mortal man, how could we explain the things in verses 11 through 15? How could the king of Tyrus have been in the Garden of Eden or upon the holy mountain of God? How could he have been the anointed cherub that covered the ark? None of the things mentioned here had been the experience of the king of Tyros’. We cannot explain this section simply by spiritualizing it. It is unfair if we spiritualize the interpretation of a section when we encounter difficulties in it. I believe that the first section (vv. 1-10) addressed to the prince of Tyros’ was a word spoken to King Ithobalus II, and the second section (vv. 11-19), the lamentation upon the king of Tyros’, denotes the coming Antichrist. Verse 2 of this chapter speaks of Tyro “in the midst of the seas.” By reading Daniel 11:41-45, we know that when the coming Antichrist will be in Palestine, perhaps he will dwell at Tyro. That is why he was called the king of Tyro here. Moreover, Antichrist is Satan incarnate; therefore, numerous expressions in this section refer to Satan himself.
Mr. Darby said, “Verses 11-19, while continuing to speak of Tyro, go, I think, much farther, and disclose, though darkly, the fall and the ways of Satan, become through our sin the prince and god of this world.” Dr. A. C. Gaebelein also said that the king of Tyro is a type of the last great sinner (Antichrist), that behind this evil king, we see another power that is Satan; Satan was the power behind the king of Tyros’ then, and he still is the god of this age now, who rules the nations of this world. If we have studied the Scriptures carefully, we will realize that the justification for merging Satan and Antichrist in this passage into one being is not contrary to the general teachings of the Scriptures. We know that, although human beings have their own will, their walk is either directed by God’s operating (Phil. 2:13) or by the operating of the evil spirits (Eph. 2:2). Human beings are never totally free. Ordinarily, human beings are under the control of the evil spirits. Sometimes, in important matters, Satan himself, in addition to the working of evil spirits, will also participate in the work. Hence, we see him personally coming to tempt Christ in the wilderness. Later, in trying to hinder Christ from going to the cross, he personally used Peter. After that, in attempting to destroy Christ, he entered into Judas. Eventually, on the world stage he will be united to Antichrist. Scripture says that the works of Antichrist are “according to Satan’s operation” (2 Thess. 2:9); it is Satan who “gave him his power and his throne and great authority” (Rev. 13:2). Since Antichrist is the incarnated devil, the Holy Spirit speaks of him together with Satan in this passage. In these few verses, the superhuman aspects all refer to Satan himself, and the remainder to Antichrist. Since our purpose is not to study the question of Antichrist, but to know the creatures of the former world and the cause of its desolation, we shall put aside the verses in this portion concerning the Antichrist and concentrate on Satan, who is related to our subject.
Now let us consider the words that refer to Satan. Ezekiel 28:12 says that Satan (Note: “Satan” is the name used after he had sinned; he was called the “son of the dawn” and also “Daystar” or “Lucifer” (Isa. 14:12) before his fall. “Satan,” which means “adversary,” is his name after the fall. For the sake of convenience, we shall call him Satan in the following paragraphs.) “Sealest up the sum, full of wisdom, and perfect in beauty.” This depicts his condition before he had sinned. He was superior to all the other angels. Phrases like “sealest up the sum,” “full of,” and “perfect” reveal that he was the greatest of all the creation. God had put him above all the creation. Being “full of wisdom” probably refers to his understanding of God’s will; if this is true, he might have had the office of a prophet already.
The first part of Ezekiel 28:13 says, “Thou hast been in Eden the garden of God; every precious stone was thy covering.” When we read Genesis 3, we indeed see Satan there. However, he was not being covered by “every precious stone”; he was tempting Adam and Eve. Hence, the two gardens of Eden are not of the same time. In Adam’s Garden of Eden, Satan had fallen, whereas here, it clearly depicts the situation before his fall. Hence, the garden of Eden here must be earlier than the one at Adam’s time. If so, then it must not have belonged to the present world but to the previous one. This Garden of Eden, like the coming New Jerusalem, had many precious stones, such as sardius, beryl, etc. The Garden of Eden where Adam lived was not like this. The Bible focuses only on the trees and does not say anything concerning their being covered with precious stones. Hence, the Garden of Eden here must be different from that of Adam and is much earlier. His being covered with the precious stones reminds us of the precious stones on the priest in Exodus. He probably had been appointed by God to be a priest. The latter half of the verse says, “The workmanship of thy tablets and of thy pipes was prepared in thee.” In the Bible musical instruments are used by kings. We see how David played the harp for king Saul. When the king of Babylon was destroyed, the sound of his lutes were said to be brought down to Sheol (Isa. 14:11). And when the king of Babylon was pleased, various musical instruments were played (Dan. 3). Satan was a king at that time and these musical instruments were given to him by God. The first half of Ezekiel 28:14 says that he is “the anointed cherub that covered.” Anointed indicates that he is consecrated. The work of the cherubim is to lead men to worship the Lord (Rev. 4:9-10; 5:11-14). Therefore, his work in the beginning was also to lead the creatures at that time in the worship of God. This also refers to his priesthood. The latter part of verse 14 says that he was “upon the holy mountain of God” and had “walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire.” The holy mountain of God probably is the place where God’s glory is manifested. As the priest of God, he would, of course, stand before Him to minister. What does it mean to walk “up and down in the midst of the stones of fire”? Ezekiel 1:26 reveals that the position of the cherubim is below the throne. Now when Moses took seventy of the elders of Israel up the mountain of Sinai, “they saw the God of Israel: and there was under his feet as it were a paved work of a sapphire stone, and as it were the body of heaven in his clearness…And the sight of the glory of the Lord was like devouring fire on the top of the mount” (Exo. 24:10, 17). The paved work of sapphire stone in the appearance of devouring fire probably was “the stones of fire.” This indicates that Satan enjoyed a very high place, right below the throne of God, and was very intimate with God. Verse 15 says that he was perfect in his ways from the day that he was created, but that later God found iniquity in him. All of God’s creation was perfect; God is not the author of sin. Iniquity was initiated by the archangel who sinned. He was created and given a free will by God just as we were. Unfortunately God’s created angel abused his freedom! And how many people are still following his footsteps! The first part of verse 16 says that by the multitude of his merchandise they have filled his midst with violence, and he has sinned. We may refer this word solely to Antichrist. During the end time commerce will be very prosperous (Rev. 18). Many sinful things will be brought in because of this.
This can be proven by history.Nevertheless; the same clause may be applied to Satan.
Mr. Pember points out that “the word translated `merchandise’ may also…signify `detraction’ or `slander’; and we know that the very name `Devil’ means `the slanderer,’ or `malignant accuser’” (Earth’s Earliest Ages, p. 52).
Thus, we can find out the meaning here. We see how Satan accused Job and tried to destroy him with insidious acts. Also in Revelation 12:10 we read, “Now has come the salvation and the power and the kingdom of our God and the authority of His Christ, for the accuser of our brothers has been cast down, who accuses them before our God day and night.” The casting down here probably corresponds to the casting of Satan out of the mountain of God in Ezekiel. The reason for the casting out in Ezekiel and in Revelation is one and the same, that is, accusation (or slander). Perhaps what was recorded in Ezekiel was the conviction of Satan by God and what was written in Revelation was the sending of Michael by God for the execution of that conviction. Then why would God still allow Satan to remain in the heavens? The reasons seem to be:
(1) the time of God has not yet come, and
(2) His own children need the furnace to purge away the dross still in them. Ezekiel 28:17 reveals the cause of Satan’s fall. His heart was lifted up because of his beauty, and his wisdom was corrupted by reason of his brightness. The king of Babylon as described in Isaiah 14:12-14 bears much resemblance to this verse. Many servants of God believe that the Holy Spirit is not only pointing out the king of Babylon, but in a deeper sense, the cause of the fall of Satan who was behind the king of Babylon. In my view, the record in Ezekiel reveals the cause of his pride, while in Isaiah it shows the manner in which he exhibited his pride. It is probable that after comparing himself with God’s other creatures, his heart was lifted up. In the end he tried to exalt himself to be equal with God and thus suffered God’s judgment.
“How you have fallen from heaven, O Daystar, son of the dawn! …But you, you said in your heart: I will ascend to heaven; / above the stars of God I will exalt my throne. And I will sit upon the mount of assembly On the sides of the north. I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the Most High” (Isa. 14:12-14).
Since he was so proud, God punished him. His authority in the heavens was removed and abolished by God. The remaining part of the prophecy in Ezekiel is not relevant to our subject, and we shall stop here. From the prophecy contained in this passage in Ezekiel, if our interpretation is correct, we can see how God created Satan the fairest and wisest of all His creatures in the former world and made him their leader. God placed him in the garden of Eden, which was long before the Eden of Adam. The things in the former garden, if not altogether different from those of the latter garden, were at least more numerous than the latter. They resemble the future New Jerusalem. He was a prophet there, teaching all the inhabitants of the earth with his wisdom to know how to serve God. He was also there as the priest of God, directing them in the worship and praises of God. He was also the king among the creatures, having been placed in a position that was above all the creation. He must have been in such a condition for a lengthy period of time (v. 15), but because of his sin, he became the greatest enemy of God.
So far we have covered the origin of Satan. We shall now proceed to cover Satan’s angels and demons, which are under him, and to investigate how they fell and how this affected the earth, causing it to become waste and void.
From the New Testament we see that under the hand of Satan there are two living beings:
(1) angels and
(2) demons. Let us first look at the angels. Matthew 25:41 speaks of “the devil and his angels.” Revelation 12:4 says that the dragon’s “tail drags away the third part of the stars of heaven, and he cast them to the earth.” The stars denote the angels (Rev. 1:20). Therefore 12:9 says, “And the great dragon was cast down, the ancient serpent, he who is called the Devil and Satan,…he was cast to the earth, and his angels were cast down with him.” These angels were probably the ones established by God in the beginning to assist Satan to rule the world. They were “the congregation of the mighty” and “the gods” in Psalm 82 (cf. John 10:35). When Satan fell, they either conspired or sympathized with him. Therefore, they fell together with him and became today’s “rulers,” “authorities,” “world-rulers of this darkness,” “the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenliest” (Eph. 6:12). Note that the numbers are plural. These angels are not disembodied demons; they have ethereal bodies. This is why the Lord promises that the children of resurrection will be like the angels in the heaven. Satan has another class of subjects, the evil spirits. Demons and the evil spirits (or filthy spirits) are the same. We can tell this by checking with the translation of the Mandarin Bible. In Matthew 8:16, it firstly mentions the demons, then the spirits. But the Bible translators, seeing that the Holy Spirit used the words “demon” and “spirit” interchangeably, translated both into “demons.” In Luke 10:17 the word “demons” is in the original language, but in verse 20 the word “demons” should be “spirits.” In these two verses of the Bible we see the Lord Jesus acknowledged the “demons” and the “spirits” to be the same and thus the Chinese Bible translator again translated both as “demons.” Matthew 17:18 speaks of the Lord casting out a demon, yet Mark calls this demon an unclean spirit and dumb spirit (Mark 9:25). Demons and spirits are the same. These demons, or spirits, probably were the race who lived in the former world. They helped Satan in his sinning; or, perhaps after Satan sinned, they followed him rather than forsaking him and obeying God. Therefore, they were cut off by God and their bodies were removed from them. Hence, they became disembodied spirits. Although we cannot find any clear evidence in the Bible to confirm this theory, we can find some clues. In Matthew 12 we see the situation of a demon when he left the human body. He became helpless and wandered about. Besides the human body, he could not find another resting place. Therefore, he eventually returned to his original place, the human body. If they were not disembodied spirits, why did they have to enter into man’s body? As we read Luke 8, we see how the legion of demons was unwilling to leave the human body. When they had no way to remain in the human body, they even entered the bodies of the swine. Presently in the world they still cling to human bodies. Even some believers are unconsciously possessed by them. They are different from Satan and his angels who do not like to enter human bodies. Satan and his angels still have a spiritual body, but the demons do not. Their character and liking seem to prove that they are the disembodied spirits. Since they are disembodied spirits, where were they when they were disembodied? We know that the spirits of all the dead are in Hades. So, where do these spirits come from? They must have come from the former world. While they were alive, their habitation was probably the former world where Satan exercised his rule. In the Bible we can find another clue that tells us that there were inhabitants in the pre-Adamic world. Isaiah 45:18 shows that the world created by God in the beginning was not waste and empty. Since this verse speaks of the original world, one expression suggests to us the existence of mankind in the previous world.
It says, “He is the God who formed the earth… He did not create it waste.” This clearly refers to the original creation. Following this it says, “He formed it to be inhabited.” This seems to clearly tell that the earth then was inhabited by some race. As we read the Bible further, we find clues which indicate that there is a detention place for the demons now. The legion of demons in Gadara must have known this. They were in great fear and begged the Lord that He would not “order them to depart into the abyss,” (Luke 8:31) because they would be tormented there (Matt. 8:29).
Mr. Pember says that this “abyss” in the original language is abussos; and that “in some passages, such as the ninth chapter of the Apocalypse, this term is evidently applied to a fiery hollow in the centre of the earth: but it is also used for the depths of the sea, a meaning which accords well with its derivation” (Earth’s Earliest Ages, p. 60). In the future Satan will be detained in a bottomless pit in the center of the earth. This is revealed in the book of Revelation. The demons are also detained in an abyss now, yet some of them still have freedom. We must wait until God’s appointed time comes for them to be completely shut inside. This abyss is probably different from the one in the heart of the earth; it is in the sea. Furthermore, at the final judgment (Rev. 20:11-15) when all the prisoners will have been thrown into the lake of fire, there will be no more sea in the new heaven and new earth (Rev. 21:1). However, there may be only one abyss that is divided into two parts. There are other clues concerning the sea being the place of detention for demons. In the Septuagint Bible, the word “deep” in Genesis 1:2 is the same as “abyss” here. We have said that these demons are probably created races that lived in the first world. This corresponds to what we read in Genesis 1:2 because they originally lived on the earth. After sinning, their bodies were destroyed by God; their habitation was judged by God and became without form and void. The whole earth was covered by water and was characterized as “the deep.” It follows then that the spirits of the races at that time were in this “deep”! Finally, on the third day when God restored the earth, He commanded the earth to come out from the water and called the gathering of the waters the sea. This earth was prepared for mankind in the new world. Where then have the former demons gone? We can spontaneously answer that they went into the sea. As we read Revelation 20:13, we often do not understand why the sea will give up the dead which are in it. It is understandable to say that death and Hades will deliver up the dead which are in them, but why will the sea give up the dead who are in it? The common interpretation is that the sea surrenders the bodies of those who are drowned. If so, then the earth should also give up its dead because there are more bodies buried in the earth than in the sea. Yet the earth does not give up its dead. Therefore, the sea will give up the spirits of the imprisoned ones and not the bodies of the dead. Men’s spirits are in death and Hades; the Bible does not say that the spirits of man are kept in the sea. Then whose spirits will the sea give up? It will give up those who are from the other world, that is, the former world. The sequence here indicates this. “The sea gave up the dead who were in it, and death and Hades gave up the dead which were in them.” Those who lived in the former world died first. Therefore, they will be the first beings to be given up; then, we who are of this world will follow after because every man will be judged in his own order. Thus far we have seen the probable origin of Satan, his angels, and the demons. As to how man lived on the former earth, this is something beyond our knowledge. However, we can see some hints in the Bible.
Many Bible scholars, Dr. Scofield being one of them, believe that Jeremiah 4:23-26 refers to the condition of Genesis 1:2, in which the earth was without form and void. Although the context of this passage is the desolation of Judah, these few verses of the Scripture have a notably broader view, as if God caused the prophet to view the desolation of the earth in the beginning. If our belief is accurate, then we know that in the former world there was “the fruitful land” and “its cities” (v. 26). The inhabitants then dwelt in cities and some took up farming as an occupation. When they were deceived by Satan, the burning anger of Jehovah came upon them (v. 26) and the earth became “waste and emptiness” (v. 23).From these biblical clues we see the original situation of the earth, the races who dwelt on the earth, the paradise, and the princes, etc. If we are not mistaken in our meditation, we can draw a conclusion concerning the first world and the cause of its desolation as follows: In the beginning of “time” (as opposed to eternity) God created the heavens and the earth. The earth was not waste (Isa. 45:18) but very beautiful and perfect. On this earth there were inhabitants and the number of the inhabitants was great. Before God created the earth and human beings, He had created the angels (Job 38:6-7). He assigned Satan, whom He created, as the leader to be above all the angels. Satan, the most beautiful and wisest of all, the prime of all God’s creation, dwelt in the Garden of Eden. God made him the ruler of the world; therefore, he was called “the ruler of the world” (John 14:30).
Many angels were under his rule, and these angels shared in ruling with him. Then, because of his position and honor, he became proud. Due to pride, he rebelled and lifted himself up to be equal with God. He was not satisfied with being a creature, but desired to be the Creator. Therefore, he slandered God before the people and accused the people before God. God found out his iniquity and condemned him. When the time comes, he will be cast to the earth. One third of the angels (Rev. 12) followed him in rebellion and, therefore, became the angels of the devil. God has prepared hell for them (Matt. 25:41), and when the time comes, Satan will be cast into it. In the former world, the inhabitants of the earth, being under Satan and his angels’ rule, were also deceived and filled up with sins. (We can readily understand this when we consider our world situation today.)
Therefore, God’s anger was fierce, and He completely destroyed the earth and all the races therein and locked up many spirits in the abyss in the sea. These evil spirits, angels, and Satan himself formed the kingdom of darkness. We do not know how long this period lasted. Later, the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters again, and the Triune God began His restoration work on the world. After His restoration of the world, He created Adam and his wife and asked them to guard it, so that there would be man on the earth to cooperate with Him in heaven to stop Satan’s power. Perhaps God used Adam to test Satan to see whether he would repent. However, he came to tempt Adam; therefore, God cursed Satan. Because Adam fell, he could not bring the world which was under Satan’s rule back to God. On the contrary, the world Adam received from God’s hand was given anew to Satan. Since angels and mankind had failed, God came in the person of the Son to be a man, the last Adam. The Lord Jesus became God’s prophet, priest, and king. When He was on this earth, He was God’s prophet without blemish. When He was about to die, He was able to say, “The ruler of the world is coming, and in me he has nothing” (John 14:30). At His death all who are in Adam were crucified in Him. He was able to include all of the old Adamic creation in His crucifixion because He is God, and He is able to continue on as the new man. His human living had nothing to do with Satan. Through His death and resurrection, He regained the world lost by the first Adam. Every sinner, who is destined to die in the old Adam, can return to God and be saved if he rejects the first Adam through the death of the last Adam and joins himself to Christ in life. This is the meaning of believing in the death of the Lord Jesus. Therefore, whoever believes in the Lord Jesus becomes an enemy of the devil. In everything he attacks us, and in everything we resist him, his angels, and the demons. This is God’s purpose in saving man, and this is a real spiritual warfare. Satan was judged once on the “holy mountain of God,” and he was judged again on the hill of Golgotha. He has been convicted, yet his judgment has not yet been executed. When the time comes he will be cast down from heaven and when the Son of God returns to this earth, he will be cast into the abyss. After one thousand years he will forever suffer in the lake of fire. Now the Lord Jesus holds the authority which Satan had abused, and He will hold it until all traces of rebellion disappear. He has brought His own blood into the Holy of Holies and has cleansed the heavens; He is now a Priest of God. When He returns, it will be the time of the restoration of all things. He will be a King, ruling this world from heaven with all the overcoming saints, in the same way that Satan ruled with his angels in the former time. At that time He will teach the inhabitants of this earth to know God’s will and to worship God, in the same way that Satan did in the former days. The situation in the millennium will be like the situation in the world before Satan sinned. Christ will restore all things to the condition in the “beginning” in order to accomplish God’s original purpose. After this He will burn up the whole world, and there will be a new heaven and a new earth in which the righteous will dwell. Therefore, as God’s children we ought to have a deeper enmity for the devil. For thousands of years God’s only purpose has been for man to be joined with Him to destroy Satan’s authority. Our God is a law-abiding God. He will not take back by force the world which was lost through man. Therefore, He sent His Son to become a man in order to regain what man had lost. We, men who have been saved, ought to cooperate with the unique “Man,” the Lord Jesus. In our life, in our work, in our environment, in our dwelling, and in the world, we should resist the works of the devil. Our resistance is in firmness of faith (1 Pet. 5:9), and not by means of fleshly weapons (2 Cor. 10:4), which is the way of social reformers who are being utilized by the demons. Satan was wise and beautiful! But because of his pride, he ended up in complete ruin. It is dangerous for frail mortals to esteem themselves wise and beautiful! Beware, lest being lifted up with pride, you fall into the judgment of the devil (1 Tim. 3:6). Being self-exalted with pride is not a blessing to man; wisdom rests only with those who fear the most high God Jehovah.
THE EARTH RESTORED THE RECOVERY OF THE EARTH IN SIX DAYS
We have seen that in the beginning God created a perfect world. Later, because of the sins committed by Satan and those who dwelt on the earth, they and the earth were judged by God, and the earth became without form and void. Now we will see God’s work of restoring the earth. In the book of Job, Job mentions the failure of Satan’s rebellion in order to show that it is foolish to dispute with God. “He is wise in heart, and mighty in strength: who hath hardened himself against him, and hath prospered? which removed the mountains, and they know not; which overturned them in his anger; which shakes’ the earth out of her place, and the pillars thereof tremble; which commanded the sun, and it rises not; and sealed up the stars” (Job 9:4-7). When did God do this? When did He shake the mountains and the earth, and alter the position of the celestial bodies due to man’s stubbornness towards Him? Since the time of Adam, such an act of God in the world has not been seen. This passage must be a description of God’s judgment on Satan and on the earth under his dominion when he rebelled. At that time God shook the earth and overturned the mountains. The calamity came so swiftly that the mountains were overturned unnoticed. In addition to the earth, the positions of the celestial bodies were also affected. Because of God’s judgment, the sun disappeared completely and the stars did not shine. The world was plunged into darkness. There was no sun and no heat was produced. Consequently, this led to the glacial epoch on this earth. Then, after a long period of time, possibly due to internal heat at the earth’s core (Rev. 9:2), the ice gradually melted. However, the sun had not yet appeared and the stars were still “sealed up.” When the Spirit of God began to move, there was the deep, and darkness was upon the face of the deep. Job not only mentions God’s judgment, but also His work of restoration. He says, “Which alone spreadeth out the heavens, / and treadeth upon the high peaks of the sea; / which maketh Arcturus, Orion, and Pleiades, / and wonders without number” (Job 9:8-10, Heb.). The phrase “spread knows? / Or who hath stretched the line upon it? / Whereupon are the foundations thereof fastened? / Or who laid the corner stone thereof; / when the morning stars sang together.” No matter which earth is referred to here, whether the original created earth or the restored earth on the third day, one thing is definite: before the earth was formed, the stars already existed. As the earth was being formed, morning stars were there singing together, praising the work of God. In Genesis God was only rearranging the stars that were there before. After He had gathered the light into the sun and had made it the great light, He restored the stars and made them appear in the sky to meet the needs of the earth. The Holy Spirit inspired Moses to describe God’s work with human words because the Bible is written for man. He did not speak of the positions and functions of the sun, moon, and stars, but only mentioned their relationship to the earth and man. Although seasons, days, and years have to do with other creatures, the use of the celestial bodies “for signs” is specifically for man, since no one besides man is able to observe the motions of the celestial bodies in order to make signs. God only speaks about the positions and functions of the sun, moon, and stars according to man’s viewpoint. He does not mention other matters. In man’s eyes the sun is the greatest light, the moon is the second, and the stars are still smaller lights. Is it not wonderful that God has prepared such an immense universe for men as small as we? On the fifth day, after the dry land and the celestial bodies had been restored, God prepared to create living organisms to inhabit the earth. “Let the waters bring forth abundantly the moving creature that hath life, and fowl that may fly above the earth in the open firmament of heaven” (v. 20). God’s commandment expressed God’s purpose. “And God created great whales, and every living creature that moved, which the waters brought forth abundantly, after their kind, and every winged fowl after his kind” (v. 21). God created these things out of nothing. We do not know what materials God used to make fish and aquatic life. As for the birds, 2:19 tells us that they are made out of the ground. Science tells us that living organisms first existed in the water, then on the ground. Aquatic organisms are the most primitive species among all the animals. Even today, the ocean is still home to the majority of the living creatures. Birds, on the other hand, are the most primitive species of all warm-blooded animals. We can see how closely science resembles the description in the Bible. Although science proves these words, faith believes without the help of science! On the sixth day God went on to create the beasts, the cattle, and the creeping things. Finally, He created man in His own image. We will discuss the creation of man in more detail in later messages. Here we will deal only briefly with the subject. Chapter one covers the creation of man in a brief way to show us man’s position among the creatures, while chapter two describes the origin of man in detail to show us man’s relationship with God. We should notice that man was “created” by God (v. 27). Man did not evolve from a lower class of animal. The word “creation,” as we have mentioned, means the making of something out of nothing. It is a special work of God and not a natural process of evolution. The Bible does not give credence to the theory of evolution, which will forever be a vain idea! On the third day God ordered each type of vegetation, the trees, grass, and vegetables, to yield seed after its kind. Grass cannot change into a tree, neither can one tree change into another kind of tree. On the fifth day aquatic life and birds were all after their kinds. On the sixth day the beasts, cattle, and creeping things were also after their kind. Every creature is after its kind. The Bible does not tell us how these kinds were classified, yet the words “after his kind” is sufficient proof that in those days every creature was of a different kind. Since God has said that everything was “after his kind,” the boundary of each kind was set by God. There is absolutely no possibility for one kind to evolve into another kind. Plants cannot change into animals; even one kind of plant cannot change into another kind of plant, neither can one kind of animal change into another kind of animal. We Christians believe in the Word of God. Anything beyond “thus saith the Lord,” we will not believe. How much less should we listen to a theory that is contradictory to the Word of God? The Word of God is sufficient to solve all the problems. The world may be scornful of our logic, but we are satisfied with God’s Word. Pitiful mortals do not believe in our God. As a result, they drift aimlessly and devise theories for themselves on which to base their faith! They think that it is too incredible for God to bring something out of nothing into being, and to make man out of the dust of the earth. To us, however, for a tiny embryo of one kind of animal to undergo the numerous processes of evolution to become a monkey, and then after many more steps of evolution, to change from a monkey into a man, is something that is far more incredible. Just for a monkey to evolve into a man is incredible. It is much more incredible than God creating man! I warn my readers not to believe such end-times nonsense. Not only should we not believe such talk; we should not even listen to it. We should not read magazines or books that contain these kinds of theories. We thank God that His words are clear and easy to understand. He said, each “after his kind,” and all around us we see all animals and plants behaving according to this word. Formerly, evolutionists said that man’s ancestors were some sort of animal many thousands of years ago. Now they tell us that after many more thousands of years, our descendents will be formless animals without fingers or toes. They are talking things that belong to many thousands of years ago or many thousands of years in the future, things which we will never see or be able to hold up for questioning! Our Bible is a book of the present. At present, all creatures multiply after their own kind. The Bible does not make irresponsible statements! As noted by many previous writers, “Elohim,” one of the names for God in the original Scriptures, is plural in number. However, in Genesis 1:26 the verb used after God is singular in number. It seems incompatible to have a plural noun with a singular verb. However, this indicates that God is three-in-one and one-in-three. Since there is more than one person in the Godhead, the noun does not have a singular designation. Neither are there two persons. Hence, the designation is not dual. Rather, there are three persons. Hence, there is the plural designation “Elohim.”

Im for Creation. For one the bible does a pretty good job of giving me definte answers to scientific based questions. To try to disprove that God doesnt exist is one thing, but to try to figure out how an act discribed in the bible was done is another. Why is it in science the most reasonable and direct answer is usually the correct answer, But when it is established as fact its questioned and the basis of things science cant prove or give a direct answer to is covered up by using a measurement of time that is totally illogical. How can you tell me that something happen billions of years ago, how is this even considered as fact. If science really knows how things were made, how matter was made, and the elements in which were used to make it… Why can’t they reproduce it. If you know how man was made, Make one. See this goes back to what i sed in the begining Its one thing to not beleive in God, But to disprove that there is a being of power unexplainable cannot be denied. Some ask why cant u see God. I ask Why cant you see the air. You see the effects of air, You feel the air. I say i see the effects of God, i feel God.

There has to be a creator,cant believe people can believe scientisits if scientists were so brilliant they have designed products in hosptals that can save your life but does it gaurentee you life nope so how can one believe an little instrument that explains history well scientists have dicoverd that the earth is gonna die out in the future with that i agreee but that was long time stated in the bible before you little scientists even existed and how can you not believe in god think nicely the bible was written thousands of years ago and things happening in todays life is written in the bible so how did the bible possibily know what was gona happen in the future uhm.. and oh ja something can’t be formed out of nothing so what you saying is that babies can be formed out of nothing?????

Thanks for apologies and articles. I said thanks admin for all my sites

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