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Hmmm…I think it would probably be easier to tackle thought #2…

I know nothing about biology, (has that ever stopped me before?) but I do know that Darwinism has a very simple explanation for these sort of heinously complex structures. Mutation. Every once in a while, something happens to make a creature’s offspring radically different than anything before it. Usually this weirdo organism will be killed off, due to its bogosity. But occasionally, the mutation just happens to work out favorably, and it gets to reproduce, making more weirdo organisms. So these amazingly complex structures are just lucky mutations of an organism a ways back.

Concerning thought #1, I admit that a universe specifically created to have a history is completely possible. Almost everything is. But unfortunately, the only evidence is the point you brought up in thought #2, which can actually be explained by evolution. There is no way that creationism could be taught in schools as more than a possibility until some actual evidence shows up, which, if our universe was designed well, never will.

Creationism wouldn’t be taught in school as anything but a possibility, because like you said, it can’t be proven. The thing is, because of this it cannot be disproven. Going from that…because we cannot either prove or disprove it, it’s neither true nor false to us (basically the whole concept does not exist)
I get the point that a half of a structure cannot function properly, but I really don’t have any qualms about it not being able to evolve into the full structure. You say that half of a structure wouldn’t work…well these structures don’t evolve by halves. If you have a simple structure that works, mutations can build upon it. It’s like our development of computers. The first computers didn’t do all that much, but they worked. As we went along more stuff got added and computers got more useful etc. etc. etc. The point it, the evolutionary process (as just a chance thing) was not completely planned out. Protists are able to function, but they don’t have complex systems. What I do have an issue with is how this whole thing started off in the first place. You can’t evolve something from nothing.

I agree with what the majority of jackie said. As for her confusion with how evolution first began, I have this to say: Evolution did not start with nothing. All it would need as a catylist would be a massive sea of interecting amino acids bumping into each other and exchanging energy randomly for BILLIONS of years. If I am correct, the majority of earths life was spent DOING NOTHING. And that is exactly the amount of time it would take for some type of unique chemical composition to bump into each other and create something more complex. These things I’m sure happened many trillions of times and fell apart but the key is, we are talking BILLIONs of years hear. Thats enough time for a million trillion accidents to occur. Thats PLENTY of time for those Quadrillions of little amino acids to reform and try again, reform and try again, reform and try again. What alot of people have a hard time understanding is just how long a billion years is, much less 2 billion.

we may never be able to prove Creation is true or not. but we could prove evalution is & i think we’ll be able to in the next sentury. i believe we might have done so already if it wern’t for the facked that cristions run this country.for instents, we could have gone so far in medical science with the the hole overy thing,i cant think of what it was calld, but so everyone said it was immorral to use human eggs, well ive got millions of fucking eggs, & hell, im not useing then, why cant i give them away & maybe save a life, is that immoral?other wise their all just gonna end up in the toilet. what i really wanna know is why people have such a hard time letting go of this god therory? would it really be so bad if their wasent a god? hell, then u could masterbate gilt free. If you look back a few hundred years, relion was just a way to keep people under control like a form of law. crist was a great inteligant man, who brought morrals to sosiatie, we needed this religon then to keep us all from killing each other. but now it seems relgion is exactly whats tearing the world apart.(! u should look into the string theory, treaty, its really intressting!).

& of corse they’ll never teach Creation in schools, theres nothing scientific about it.religion is a part of history but god isnt. evolution has been proven everything evolved from fish or i mean the water.if this really intressed you, you should acualy look into it.i think ull find evolution is quite logical.

>> everything evolved from fish

God must have done something really bad to you to deserve this kind of insult.

i dont see how this could be an insult, whos to say we are any better then fish. true, we have a more conplex mind, but why dose this make us better?i mean fish can breath under water, somthing ive never masterd maybe you’ve got it all wrong & they’re the more superior race, they’ve deffinetly been around longer then hummans have. what i dont understand is why people see themselfs as better then the rest. why cant we all just look apon all living things, & see them as just another eating, sleeping, living thing.

How can anyone believe in evolution?????? It takes more faith to believe in this hogwash then it does to believe in God and ceation. Just listen to what evolutionists believe. There was once a bacteria cell that SOMEHOW just appeared form a bolt of lightning. It evolved into fish and sea animals, then the fish crawled out of the waters and shedded their skin and became amphibians, then they evolved and became reptiles. The reptiles shedded their skins and SOME grew wings and became birds and ducks. Then some became apes and then apes became humans. Now does that sound logical??? If we all came from the same thing….then why isn’t everybodys and everythings DNA the same. We are all different so we were created in a special way.

Scientists support biogenesis now. This means life comes from life and does not just appear. If scientists believe this, then how can they say evolution is correct. Evolution is something came from nothing (Non-living)which means scientists know evolution is wrong but they don’t want to admit it or even give it a chance of being wrong because if a scientist came out and said we were wrong about evolution, they would be blasted and fired and lose all funding for everything!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Caleb said it all!!! you go!! Finally someone who knows what they are talking about!! You don’t have to even be a christian to realize that evolution is no more than an excuse to be your own god and not have to follow rules so you just go ahead a beleive what you want but do yourselves a favor and take a look at some videos that are out by a man named Dr. Kent Hovind. He is offering $250,000.00 to anyone who can prove the therory of evolution and guess what he still has his money.

I’ve just recently started researching things about evolution therory and I am amazed at just how many people have been brainwashed with this garbage! But I guess if you’re being pounded with it from 1st grade on its bound to get a grip on some. I am ashamed for the entire human race that we would be deceived this easily! I pray that god will have mercy on you!

This presents an interesting perspective on Dr. Kent Hovind.
http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/hovind.html

guest_5541 : hi, i have a problem with the ajax Shoutbos on my page, I can only add shoutous when I loged in. If not the message won#t be displayed.
http://www.nasa-team.de

When lots of cycles are produced in a shared compartment then some of the components of various cycles can create a new one, maybe more integrated adapted and efficient, like the krebs cycle. That the krebs must be complete is a LIE. Glioxillate cycle bypasses various steps of it in plants that uses acetate as nutrient. Multifactorial assembles appears in nature apparently suddenly because of mentioned above. Darwinian evolution has known weak points like “natura non faccit saltum” (contradicted more than one century ago by max planck and his constant). Sometimes accumulation of little changes produce large ones (analogy with earthquakes). Creationism has not any rational proof nowadays. God, if exists, seems to have created a world in wich no trace of his presence is reachable by our actual understanding. Is not logical that any person can reach the faith only reading a molecular biology book. But defenders of creationism has an interesting research field. Go ahead! sorry if my english is not perfect. I am from argentina.

caleb hirsch, no scientist believes that a bold created a cell. Bolds created maybe aminoacids, that are present too in titan, a moon of saturn (the largest natural satellite in the solar system). Aminoacids (the component of proteins) are tought to be the first building blocks of molecules that can catalize chemical reactions. There is a lot of things not well understood but i think that trying to understand how aminoacids and nucleotids interacted and evolved to form DNA-Protein assembles as we have nowadays is an intersting challenge. Don’t forget that this is not a proof against creationism, god could have perfectly created life with a history that make it more coherent. Don’t forget that god is above space and time as we know. He could have created us and our history at the same “moment”. We are trapped in the timeline, not him. Greetings.

Libertus, we are composed by the same molecules as a fish. We have the same vision mechanism. We need to kill to subsist as them. What we can do with the food, what we can do with the things we see is what differences us. We are much more advanced, complex and capable of things they not. An ancestor being a fish or whatever doesn’t insult me or anyone. Evidence suggest that god was not so bad creating as from a fish. We are pretty interesting… there is some exceptions of course… poor god.

Another comment. I think that is true that the missunderstund of how evolution really is was (and is) the source of lot of terrible ideas. The survival of the stronger individual is not always true from my point of view. Simplistic ideas of evolution doesn’t seem to look to strong forces as cooperativism and altruism. I didn’t read the entire book but i not agree “the selfish gen” idea. greetings

Now I am studying biological chemistry i found something that support the notion of a new arrengment like the krebs cycle coming from combination of other parts of preexisting cycl: the last 4 reactions of the krebs cycle are very similar (exactly the same chemical groups involved) to the four reactions of the beta oxidation of lipids.
succinate-fumarate-malate-oxalacetate from krebs and the four of beta oxidation.

Audrey,
Please don’t expect anyone to take you seriously until you learn to spell.

Others,
Evolutionary theory. that’s all it is, a theory. It is more plausible than creationism, but it’s still just a theory. Calm down.

Sean, Evolution is a theory. Calm down. lol.

Seriously though, can you prove the existence of God? I’ll give you everything in my bank account if you can. ($160+ my mp3 player)

“You don’t have to even be a christian to realize that evolution is no more than an excuse to be your own god and not have to follow rules”

Where are you pulling that from? Rules and laws were not invented by Jesus. They weren’t even invented by the Jews, eventual inventors of Christianity.

And, for the very first comment, with all the ‘maybes..
Maybe that is all true, but maybe, the God who you think did all that stuff is not right. Maybe The world was really created by Zeus and Hera and Apollo etc, or by the mystical powers of ‘Mother Earth’ who somehow existed before there was even an Earth! I mean, expecting a debate to work in such an open field is a little silly.

Defenders of evolutionary theory feel that the incomprehensible, unexplainable power of God is so far reaching that it must be a myth. Therefore their belief in the bible not being a reliable source is because of their inability to analyze and explain the act of God’s miraculous creation. Satan’s method of stirring men into questioning God as our creator is this. Men have gone as far as to destroy man’s dignity through the theory of evolution, in the purpose of excluding God from this miraculous act. In this we see the results of man abandoning the true human origins recorded in the bible, unknowing that they are furthering Satan’s plan. We must now more then ever hold on to the truth with all our might, with much reading and dissecting the word of God to strengthen our faith, so that we may never become subject to human theory or fall pray to Satan and his plan to destroy us.

You have to be joking Hector…the Bible is not reliable because it is contradictory…because it gives the image of Old Testament God who is all blood and wrath and slaughter these people…and then New Testament God has obviously gotten over his moodiness because apart from killing his own son he seems to be all happy la la.

Hey Katrina, get your facts right or keep your mouth shut. The bible is not contradictory. EVERYTHING and I stress EVERYTHING scientists have found has proven the bible. Everything archaeologists have found also proves the bible. However, everything scientists have found as no proof of evolution. Anything scientists find anymore, they all come out and say “This is the missing link!!!” Guess what???? They are wrong all the time!! How can anyone explain that fish GREW lungs and crawled on land. Does that make any sense???????? Some supreme person is behind this and his name is God. I mean have you ever thought about this statement……Are we all accidents that happened to evolve because MONKEYS needed to adapt and when we die we just go back to dust, or are we all made in a special way and have a purpose in our life and someday, when we die, we will go to Heaven if we believe in Jesus. Seriously, next time your at a beach, or in a forest, or driving around, look around you. Do you honestly think all this happened by ACCIDENT??? If you do, let me know so I can pray that God reveals himself to you.

I believe in god but i also believe in evolution. There is alot of evidence about evolution from dna to fossils. The only evidence that supports creation is in the bible. How do you know that the bible wasnt just made up so we can have faith in something. They have all these theorys about creation. All be a believer when i see proof.

sarah, if you believe in God, then how can you believe in evolution? In the bible it says God created everything. You can’t believe in both. Either you believe in the Bible and believe what God did or you don’t. You can’t believe in God and then say everything he said is a lie! the Bible is the only scientific accurate book. It talks about dinosaurs and the water cycle in the Bible. it also mentions some stuff about nuclear fission or fusion, i can’t remember which one. even scientists today have said the flood in Noah’s time was true!!!

I am reading a great book at the moment by a guy called Brian McLaren. The book is called “The Story We Find Ourselves In”. It’s the second of three books he wrote a while ago. But there are some fantastic thoughts in there about evolution.

It talks about evolution being the method that the Creator used to create the world… I can’t put in words what he says - you’ll have to check out the book and I am sure it is not the only one that points out that evolution does nothing to disprove the existence of God.

Here is something for you evolutionists. How can nothing explode? Where did all that matter and energy come from? What caused its release? How did this explosion of everything (from nothing) order itself? How can simplicity become complexity? Where did the chemical elements come from? Where did the mathematical laws and physical properties come from? How do we explain the design, complexity and fine-tuning inherent in spiral galaxies, solar systems, and stars?

How did life come from a rock? How did a bird come from a lizard? Why don’t we see birds come from lizards today? Why are there no transitional fossils in our museums today? Why have we never observed beneficial mutations? Where did the information code in DNA come from? Where did the language convention that interprets DNA come from? How can we explain the random development of the human eye, reproductive system, digestive tract, brain, heart and lungs? What about the subconscious mind? What about love, morality, ethics, and emotions? Can these things really evolve gradually and randomly over time? This all HAD to come from a supreme being who made all this possible.

yeah…the bible never contradicts itself…keep dreaming.

“JOH 10:30 I and my Father are one.
JOH 14:28 Ye have heard how I said unto you, I go away, and come again unto you. If ye loved me, ye would rejoice, because I said, I go unto the Father: for my Father is greater than I.”

God is tired and rests
Ex 31:17
God is never tired and never rests
Is 40:28
God is everywhere present, sees and knows all things
Prov 15:3/ Ps 139:7-10/ Job 34:22,21
God is not everywhere present, neither sees nor knows all things
Gen 11:5/ Gen 18:20,21/ Gen 3:8

God knows the hearts of men
Acts 1:24/ Ps 139:2,3
God tries men to find out what is in their heart
Deut 13:3/ Deut 8:2/ Gen 22:12
God is all powerful
Jer 32:27/ Matt 19:26
God is not all powerful
Judg 1:19
God is unchangeable
James 1:17/ Mal 3:6/ Ezek 24:14/ Num 23:19
God is changeable
Gen 6:6/ Jonah 3:10/ 1 Sam 2:30,31/ 2 Kings 20:1,4,5,6/ Ex 33:1,3,17,14

If you knew anythign about evolution, instead of spewing ignorant rhetoric, you would know that humans did not evolve from monkeys, and even making that claim is ridiculous.
I didn’t know if I should even bother replying to ridiculous “I’m not a monkey!” statements, so I consulted the Bible for advice.

PRO 26:4 Answer not a fool according to his folly, lest thou also be like unto him.

So I shouldn’t have answered you then.

PRO 26:5 Answer a fool according to his folly, lest he be wise in his own conceit.”

So I should have answered?
You tell me.

What’s wrong? Did I just shut you up? Run out of defense? Converting to Atheism, Agnosticism, Buddhism? Lol.

Shut the fuck up Katrina. Nobody cares.

Hey Katrina, first of all, it never says in the bible God is not all powerful. I like how you read a scripture and twist it round to make it something else when in fact it does not even come close to saying that. Second of all, I don’t know where the heck you are getting facts about God being chageable. There is not one thing in the scriptures you have up there that says God is changeable. Third of all, God is present and sees all things. Those scriptures you have saying that God is not present is wrong again. It says he came down to see, but it never says God could not see it from Heaven. There you go again, putting words into the bible that aren’t there!!!! Which i believe there is a scripture about that in the bible that says if you add words to the bible that aren’t there, God will take away that one’s share of the tree of life and of the Holy City (Rev 22:18-19.) I don’t have time to talk to people like you so i have to go. oh by the way, the fact is, scientists say we did evolve form monkeys. God Bless!

Come on evolutionists, i haven’t heard anybody answer my questions yet from comment # 27!!!!!!!!!! I wonder Why?????????? Oh I know…..YOU CAN’T!!!!!!!!!!!!! HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA

Creation vs. evolution is a pointless debate.

Creationists take a stance that cannot be disproven and assume they’re right because they haven’t been proven completely wrong.

Evolutionists are never completely right at one moment as their theories are constantly being changed, narrowed, and furthered by constant developments in the field.

Basically… who cares?

Hey canes #1, i am a huge evolutionist and believe we did evolve. But your questions From comment 27 got me thinking. i researched evolution on the internet and could not believe everywhere i looked, it was all about how evolution was false!!!!! i decided to talk to one of my christian friends and asked them about Jesus and the Bible. i could not believe that all the stuff in the book of Revelation is what is happening right now in the world!!! i accepted Jesus as my savior and now believe he created the world. Thank you Canes for giving me the light!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Hey Mike, i am so glad i brought you over to the good side. it makes me feel so great i just led another person to Jesus. Hopefully more evolutionists will see those questions too and question their beliefs.

Canes, regarding #27. Evolution has NOTHING to to with cosmology thats well……cosmology. the TOE starts with the simplist form of life then builds over a long long time. Once again the explosion is a different area of science (cosmology)! Also ~5 billion years is plent of time enough to explain all of the complexity, to include man, in the world. Don’t pit science against faith and call all of science “Evolution” it’s a common mistake that makes unneeded enemies. BTW I’m a Christian!

I will tell you straight up how evolution is total bull–it! Evolution means the animals adapted to their environment right? So lets look at a polar bear. When polar bears first went up north, they did not have the fur yet to keep then warm so they would have had to grow the fur to keep them warm–am I right??? And it is supposed to take evolution millions of years to work right????? So how the heck did the polar bears survive for those millions of years without having the fur to adapt yet. After a couple days, the polar bears would have died from the cold. So tell me evolutionists, how did the polar bears survive and adapt and grow their fur for the -50 degree temperatures in millions of years without dying in a couple of days???????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????? I would really love to know. Please educate me with your horse–it ideas.

As per the Polar Bear, you are under educated in the topic. The bears didnt wander up North and say “its cold out here Id better get my coat”. Climate change happens over thousands of years NOT millions, which is still plenty of time for a bear to adapt through descent with modification, the ones with thicker coats survive as they use less energy to stay warm, its gradual not sudden. It’s the climate that changed NOT the bears geographical location. This relative “rapid” evolution is called punctuated equilibrium you need to look it up before posting a ridiculous claim like that. And as I said before Im a Christian.

Isaac, how in the heck did the polar bears survive in the -50 degree weather without dying in a couple of days?????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????? Hey Isaac, you genius (NOT) how about you go up north in the -50 degree weather and see how long you can live without any protection……I bet you 990000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000dollars you die before a thousand years!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! ANY BETS????????????? I think you are the one that is not educated on this topic….You need to look it up before posting a ridiculous claim like that!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

i don’t understand people who denies that evolution exists. Apparently, God have created a beautiful and coherent world for us, in the sense that the world perceived by us follows physical rules and it is predictable (exeptions occurs but only with consequences at submicroscopic levels, not in a fish). The world expected from creation and evolution should be the same, imagine if we can see signs of creation everywhere…faith were meaningles. So the arguments of creationists seems to be against perfection of god creation. GOD IS NOT RESTRICTED IN OUR SPACE AND TIME, SO HE COULD HAVE CREATED EVERYTHING, EVOLUTION INCLUDED. The perfect creation is maybe that, he moved once his finger to cause an “explotion” (for people who are expecting explotions (canes) big bang is not just one explotion please don’t compare with one). He “moved his finger” knowing of course everything what comes after that, and also viewing it too. BECAUSE I REPEAT: GOD IS NOT NECESSARY IN OUR SPACE AND TIME, SO HE CAN BE IN THE PAST, FUTURE and PRESENT at the same moment for him. So the argument of creationists is a lack of faith in the perfection of God creation, perfection that requires our heart to be open to believe in him. All arguments posted by creationists (a twisted way to not believe in god creation) can be denied.

Canes, about your comment 27. Good for you, your questions are relevant, is a good start and I think they luckily have an answer, supporting the idea of a perfect creation by God. Luckily there are another questions that have no answer and does not support your ideas (I write “your ideas” instead of “creationism” because “your ideas” seems to be against God creation, I consider my ideas to be creationists).
Why proved ways to analyze the age of fossils are coherent with evolution and so not coherent with your ideas? What happen with radiation measures? They twisted themselves just for caprice to support evolution because satanic forces? Radiation decay laws are laws, not just theory. If they twist, why we don’t see other forces twisting today? people with your ideas tried to put some arguments against that but they are very weak, see a little explanation in
http://www.gate.net/~rwms/crebuttals.html
Why God would have created an imperfect world with life forms appearing on it without explanation?
If God would have created a world in which we can see traces of his creation in a fish, we would have no free will, and faith would have been senseless. Is like God pressing us to believe, this is not his philosophy. That is a good reason for God to use evolution in his creation
Why do you need to see something in order to believe? The answer is because you need to believe, and that is good, keep searching traces of imperfection in creation is an interesting thing. Faith has lot of good consequences, one, is promoting science. Science is an act of faith. The important thing is to keep believing.
”blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed.”
—John 20:29
Wich agrees with my “perfect creation” point of view.
your question in 27: How can nothing explode? there is a lot of things that can explode. If you refer to big bang, i believe God caused the big bang and everything from genesis to apocalypses, and so beautiful and perfect was its creation that our free will was included and everything had an explanation (including fishes that can gradually adapted to air, Krebs cycle as i demonstrated before (comments 14 and 18), and everything).
How can simplicity becomes complexity?
Concepts of simplicity and complexity are a creation of people, only limited minds as ours perceives things as “complex”. Maybe you are talking about high ordered states coming from an apparent chaos. Thermodynamics explain it good (concept of Gibbs energy, entropy and enthalpy), but there is no need of complex physical laws to explain that (as Einstein said, physical laws use to have simple explanations). There is interaction forces between molecules or objects that makes it happen. For example our ordered solar system could have started from dust because of gravity. Do you understand? With this I also answered the question about galaxies and solar systems. If you don’t understand refer to Newton laws, Keppler laws and so on confidently… they are LAWS. So forces between atoms, molecules and objects are what creates order and complexity in this terms (because chaos is complex too, so complex that it can not be fully understand yet). Where did chemical elements come? Everything but hydrogen is formed in stars, helium is the product of fusion of hydrogen, they fuses in order to equilibrate the massive gravity force due to the big amount of matter. The stars and sun you see in night and day is the product of the equilibrium between two forces, gravity that compress and thermic expansion caused from this fusion. When the stars run out of hydrogen (10 thousand millions of years in the case of the sun) starts to fuse helium to produce energy that stops gravity and then heavier elements forms. This is another beautiful example of complexity (all the periodic table) created from simplicity (hydrogen) because of forces that makes them interact. Who created hydrogen? You will be pleased to listen to my answer, maybe God was. Who created forces and mathematical laws, again God could have done this. How could have life be created from a rock? Again, God blessed the dust with his blow, this blow seems to be in the way of something that our limited minds sees as something that we call evolution, it seems to be made by forces and mathematical laws, but maybe, if we could fully understand it, we would called it just God will.
We don’t see birds coming from lizards because we are late, birds coming on this days have no chance to compete with birds with eons of evolution. And in the case they are coming, the process in this forms of life is to slow and is maybe not so gradual to allow us to see an event conducting to this in our very short history understanding evolution. Is very slow because this animals are already very complex and evolved. If you observe viruses and bacterias, they evolve faster, you can see evolution there. Why doesn’t bacterias and viruses evolve more? Because again, they can’t compete with complex forms of life already formed, they lost their chance and are confined to simplicity, finding subtle ways to introduce themselves in complex organisms like eukaryotic cells (our cells for example) and parasiting them. Why they keep existing? simplicity sometimes is more succesfully than complexity. The language convention of DNA comes in the same way that the language of life come from, again, molecular evolution selected molecules (DNA nucleotides) that can direct another molecules that have the potential of creating complex functional structures (DNA directs de synthesis of proteins, the molecules that performs all our life supporting functions including DNA synthesis). Eyes, digestive tract, and so one evolved because they give us advantages, I don’t understand your point about this being random, I am not an expert on your ideas. Subconscious mind is the part of our mind that thinks without our perception, evolved the same way as the rest of our mind. Love, morality, ethics evolved too, because they give advantages to society to survive. Love between man and woman gives the advantage of two persons taking care of a child instead of two, is not random that love used to be necessary when the paternal cares must be long us in human case. Morality and ethics are well known to evolve in societies because they make them more competitive to other ones. Finally emotions, are mental representations that allows us to asses an incentive value for something, we share them with a lot of animals, and gives a huge advantage, they are the first way of complex intelligence, with emotions we can reject things deleterious for us, like some foods, persons, animals, etc and to have an incentive to search for things that benefits us.
About your comment 32…you should not have made it. The vast majority of scientists can answer your questions in some way or another. don’t be a fanatic. They made terrible things. Cheers

when i said “Why doesn’t bacterias and viruses evolve more?” i was wrong. They evolve, but keeping some simplicity. It would have been good evolution does not exist, AIDS wouldn’t have appeared! but evoution exists, we can’t see birds coming from lizards but we can see AIDS, H5N1 (avian virus) and other forms appearing from other ones that evolved in organisms that can infect us just in front of our eyes.

Adrian, i get what i say from the Bible. you could be right, God could have easily made evolution happen and the big bang theory and everything about it. however, in Genesis, the Bible clearly states that God created everything, it never said he created a little cell which he made everything evolve out of. it says he created all the animals and sky and the moon and the sun and the earth. it never says he had a masive explosion to create everything. I go by what the bible tells me because the Bible is 100% true (if you don’t believe me do your own research- archeological findings and prophecy that is going on right now) According to the Bible, there was no evolution, God made everything, and that is what i believe!

Hey west side/anthony. You exude ignorance. Listen close and I’ll talk real slow and simple so you can understand. The polar bears DID NOT move up north. Okay you got that part? It was the climate (that means weather like snow and rain and temperature) changed where they where at. Smart people call this an “ice age” you may have seen the movie. When things got warm again (thats after the “ice age”) the bears then moved north where it was still cold. Any more questions? because I cant get any more simple than that.

Canes #1, you do not have a good handle on the Genesis creation account. It speaks in broad terms which could easily (and I believe do) describe evolutionary processes. It does not mention atoms, cells, bacteria and many other things that do in fact exist. So when it says “God created the heavans and the earth” that includes the small stuff.

I have a question of creationists.
Religious people believe that God looks like an old man, Earth is Flat, Earth has been created from 6 to 10 thousand years ago, Sun rotates around the eath, Earth is the center of everything, The sky is concrete and so on (Christians, muslims, judism) All these things are in written in all the Holly books of the religions. If you believe these things you are a christian, muslim and jew. and you must be an idiot. if you don’t, and still call yourself religious, it means you want to believe some part of your Holly book and don’t beleive other parts. if you really do’nt believe these then evolution is a sceintific proof of our history. greetings

Canes… you are still inconsistent. U don’t believe God created everything. You believe that god created a universe, some rocks, some creatures and a couple of persons. You don’t believe God created you. You come after lots of generations after the creation, what is equivalent to the notion of big bang theory. Its me who believes (or don’t deny) that God created everything, included me and you and a cell and molecules before to make my existence something coherent with the physical and chemical laws he created. Because God might (and must) created all the “presents” in history in the same “moment” (I mean outside our timeline) because he is not necessarily limited by our space-time dimension. Imagine it like God making a movie or something like this, everything is in his mind, he know everything including our future. Is the only way to create something consistent. He knows our future, but we don’t, leaving intact our free will. A problem with my notion is that free will is just an illution. This is the only point I don’t like and could be the major weakness of these ideas about creation. One solution could be that God created infinite universes with all possible combinations of “futures” and our souls are independent entities (created by Him) that can make free choices that put us in one of this possible universes he created for us. Quantum mechanics seem to support this. We must pay attention to the work of our physicists and scientist, because they study God creation.
About the bible, make your own research, but there is a lot of evidence about God, and Jesus sacrifice!!! Existing before time.
Timothy 1:9 – “who saved us, and called us with a holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before times eternal”
The genesis do not deny the idea, it says: “In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth”. It could be talking about THE BEGINNING OF GOD CREATION, not about the beginning of our time. As He created everything not limited by our space and time, because he is not limited by space and time. He could have created things in a different order, his chronology could be different. A human simil could be the one of a man writing the script for a movie. The scenario is first created, then the characters with its corresponding wardrobe and so one. Then the movie is filmed, and then, it is played as a whole history. God’s “movie” is something more complex and wonderful, in which the characters are not just actors, they (we) seem to have free will… I hope we have! I don’t like the idea of being a God’s puppet. In fact I don’t care, but is not nice.
Next says “And the earth was without form, and void”. WITHOUT FORM and VOID… mmm very suggestive. Isn’t it? First he created, then he included it in our universe of forms. So, I think that “creationism” should read the bible in a more open minded way, in order to conciliate some scientific facts with it. I think it is possible, don’t be afraid. Cheers for everybody.

Sam have you ever even taken the time to open the Bible? Your post is typical atheist propoganda that lacks any real insight. If you think your claims are correct please post chapter and verse for proof and I’ll show you where your evidence is lacking.

Isaac, how many years ago was this ice age?

Adrian, i don’t know where u are getting the idea that i ever said God didn’t create everything. He did create everything in his own special way, but he did not use evolution. If you go in the Bible and count all the years up, the world is only a about 6-7 thousands years old. Evolution is just some stupid idea that Darwin decided to suggest. By the way, even Darwin said evolution would be impossible to explain the complexity and development of the human eye. Even the man who suggested evolution is not sure about it. What does that tell you???????????????? Isaac, I don’t know who brainwashed you into thinking that Genesis has stuff in there about evolution, but it doesn’t. It says God CREATED the Heavens and Earth. then it goes onto say that God CREATED every living thing that moves in the sea and let the land be filled with tame and wild animals and small crawling animals. That looks like evolution to me……NOT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! The Bible says God created everything on Earth and every living creature in six days!!!!!!!!!!! That must have been some pretty fast evolution!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Never heard of that kind of evolution before!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! You got a name for evolution over a 6 period day Isaac??????????????????????????????????????????????????? Let me know Please. I am dying to know. Please tell me, PLEASE, PLEASE. Let me guess what this evolution is called- really, really, really, really, really, really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really fast evolution??????????

Canes, not a problem first about the ice age there have been more than one and they typicaly result in mass extinctions (thats one of the reasons diansours are not around any more). Here is a link if you are really interested, but I have a hunch your not.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Climate_change

Most of todays reserch points to us being on the tail end of an ice age that warmed up about 10,000 years ago.

As per evolution, this is why I said your Bible knowledge is lacking. You undoubtedly reading yours in english which says “day” but the text was written in hebrew which says “yom” as in yom kippur the jewish holiday. The term yom had three distinct meanings first a 24 hour day (your favoite) second a 12 hour day or the period between sun rise and sun set which how the jews observe the sabath (the “day” of the lord) and third it refers to a indisctict period of time as in “back in my fathers day.” The creation account obviously points to six distinct periods of time which where NOT 24 hour days.

BTW you have your creation account out of order. God created fish, then birds, then land animals which by the way is exactly the order the Theory of Evolution said it happened.

canes, about the eye, just a good topic. Neuroscience is my favorite one! I spent a lot of time studying the eye functioning and how it process information. About receptive fields in the retina, rods and cones, amacrine cells… In the eye occurs the first processing of information (not soooo complex by the way) for example by the “receptive fields” mechanism. The processes that occurs in the 17th area of brodmann (primary visual cortex) are much complex than in the eye, that is a rudimentary first step in the vision mechanism (that relies mainly in the brain). I understood some of the processes occuring in this 17th area (how receptive fields in the retina send its information via thalamus and how the cortex can know that there is for example, a line in this 17th area). A good book is the one from Mark Bear, Barry Connors and Michael Paradiso called “Neuroscience” to understand the basics of this mechanism. But the processes in the associative cortex (parietal cortex and temporal cortex, in which intelligence seems to take place) are far away from being well understood by no one (much much less by me). Creationist should take this example, and not the eye, that is not much better than eyes of simpler animals. Once again, “creationism” choose a poor example, because the principal examples are already demystified, they seem to take lateral ones in order to confuse people. Bad ways for good ends. If you will center your discussion on this topics i recomend you to start a scientific career (I’ve chosen biochemistry) and studying it with passion and relating it with other main sciences, because if not you will be easily cheated. You are once again inconsistent, you seem to be reluctant to believe that evolution could make an eye or other things. But if evolution is “used” by God as a beautiful argument to make our universe consistent. He can make with evolution whatever he want, you can’t use this argument about evolution being something that is not enough to make something appear. If God wants, he can use evolution to create whatever in an instant. Bible doesn’t deny evolution in a sharp way. Other argument often used by “creationists” about the missing link. The missing link is a term that is refered to a link between the man and the monkey. Archaelogists in lasts centuries had found not one but… LOTS OF MISSING LINKS. I saw one of them in front of me in the metropolitan musseum of New York (the skeleton called Lucy). There is a whole genealogical tree made of “missing links” that are not missing any more. So please… stop with missing links. Sorry canes, you are defending the impossible, a lie. You must think again about defending ideas of people that put “the missing link” as an argument… in fact, all scientific arguments are ridiculous, no intention to make an offense, the better you have is pure conjecture. My recomendation is you creationists to stop trying to convince people that evolution is a fake, is a sensless argument. We must start reading the bible and decide if God denies or not evolution. The problem is that the bible was translated several times, and there is problems with that. Please some one tell me where evoution is so categorically denied. The argument of the 6 or 7 thousand years the earth has, someone knows how to deal with it in order to conciliate it with facts? whatever, some religious people says that the intention of the genesis is not explaining how the world was created but how the evil entered in the world, to the public, that if nowadays is not easy, imagine this days.

“Hey Katrina, first of all, it never says in the bible God is not all powerful. I like how you read a scripture and twist it round to make it something else when in fact it does not even come close to saying that. ”

Explain this to me. Read these lines very carefully and ask yourself, does the second one not say the exact opposite of the first one.

PRO 26:4 Answer not a fool according to his folly, lest thou also be like unto him.

PRO 26:5 Answer a fool according to his folly, lest he be wise in his own conceit.

Re: evolution specifically, where in the Bible does it say “God created the animals, but definitely not with evolution because that’s stupid.”

Genisis doesn’t mention HOW he creates the birds and fishes etc, just that he does.
Why couldn’t it be with evolution?

If you knew anything about human history,not to meantion geology, astronomy, you would realise that the earth is much much older than 6 or 7000 years, and that the Genisis story is meant as a parable, it is meant to explain to primitive people where they came from and who made the world.

Who are you to judge how long God’s days are, who are you to put an arbitary 24 hours on each of God’s steps? How do you know that God’s 7 days are not longer than yours?

” By the way, even Darwin said evolution would be impossible to explain the complexity and development of the human eye. Even the man who suggested evolution is not sure about it. What does that tell you???????????????? ”

That tells me that Darwin was a product of his times. That tells me Darwin was not an eye doctor.

meh i got bored of th comments half way so i dont know if this has been said before but to the due who said that life comes from life and cant come from nothing adn the rest on the creation side of thing ….who created god?

because surely he couldnt have….evolved could he??

oh and yeas the krebs cycle aint brilliant but its there to produce nadp for the electron transport system whitch makes 34 out of the 38 molecules of atp in a respitory cycle (seems pretty efficent to me )and other molecules can be used insted of NADP (and the subsequent NADPH+H)
laters people i have to take my A level biology exam in 3 days so off for revision.

oh sorry for duble post but just read eye dudes post above even certain single celled organisms have light senseing proteins in them that could be called an eye urs is just a larger collection of them and maby there4 where thousands of animals the got them wrong and where fairly quickly killed by the one that had even rudimentry eyes like the third eye on the lisard i forget name of it cant really see but can measure levels of light so it can tell time of day year and posibly would notice the showod of somthing above falling on to it

Sasuke, who posted that the krebs cycle was not efficient? creationists says that it is impossible to appear by evolution, they never say it is not efficient. I posted about this topic in comments 14 & 18.

Katrina, Katrina, Katrina, first of all, you ever read the bible, those scriptures in Proverbs that you put are exactly the same thing. In proverbs 26:4 it says “Don’t give fools a foolish answer or you will be just like them. Proverbs 26:5 says “Answer fools as they should be answered or they will think they are wise.” Guess what Katrina– One says don’t give fools a foolish answer, the other ones says answer them as they should be anwered. There is no opposite there!!!!!!!! Please point it out to me where that condradicts itself!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! One says don’t give a foolish answer, the other one says answer them as they should be!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Where does that contradict itself?????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????? Also Katrina, in Genesis 1:21 it says God CREATED the large sea animals and everything living that moves in the sea. In Webster’s dictionary evolution says an unfolding process development or change, a thing evolved. Created in the webster’s dictionary says to cause to come into existence; make. HMMMMMMMMMMMM thst reminds me of something…Oh yeah…that’s right…Right in Genesis 1:25 it says God MADE (past tense of make) the wild animals, the tame animals, and all the small crawling animals to produce more of their own kind!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! What do you say to that Katrina….You know maybe if you read the Bible, you wouldn’t be so ignorant on this topic!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! oh by the way the Earth is only 6-7 thousand years old….you want some proof here is some proof for you….Read the next post form me

True Christianity doesnt come from facts, it comes from something more much more, i challenge every athiest here to go to a person close to God and ask for forgivenes, ul then see that facts are only for the simpel belief.

One last thing athiest always chant: proof we want proof, proof that God exist, but athiest give me the proof that God does NOT exist..

any one here?

Every one come back to this site tomorow at 5 then well have a real debate!

Here is some proof, I will have more later.

Our oceans contain concentrations of Aluminum, Antinomy, Barium, Bicarbonate, Bismuth, Calcium, Carbonates, Chlorine, Chromium, Cobalt, Copper, Gold, Iron, Lead, Lithium, Manganese, Magnesium, Mercury, Molybdenum, Nickel, Potassium, Rubidium, Silicon, Silver, Sodium, Strontium, Sulfate, Thorium, Tin, Titanium, Tungsten, Uranium, and Zinc. The river systems add to these concentrations at fixed apparent rates. Comparing the amounts already in the oceans with the rates at which more are being dumped, indicates the earth, as well as its river systems and oceans, are fairly young.
Sediments are being eroded into our oceans at a fixed rate. There are only a few thousand years worth of sediments on the ocean floor.

The Earth’s magnetic field has been accurately measured since 1829. Since 1829, it has decayed 7%. It is decaying exponentially at a fixed rate. By graphing the curve, we see that approximately 22,000 years ago the Earth’s field would have been as strong as the Sun’s. Life would have been impossible.

Comets are constantly losing matter. They are losing and losing and never gaining. “Short Period Comets” (like Haley’s comet), which have predictable orbits, should deteriorate to nothing within 10,000 years. Why are there still Short Period Comets?

Jupiter is losing heat twice as fast as it gains it from the Sun (it is five times further from the Sun than Earth). Yet Jupiter is still hot. If it is billions of years old, shouldn’t it have cooled off by now?

Jupiter’s moon, Ganymede, which is roughly the size of Mercury, has a strong magnetic field, a possible indication that it is still hot. Why hasn’t it cooled down?
Saturn’s rings are not stable. They are drifting away from Saturn. If Saturn is billions of years old, why does it still have rings?

The Moon is slowly drifting away from the Earth. If it is getting further, at one time it was much closer. The Inverse Square Law dictates that if the Moon were half the distance from the Earth, its gravitational pull on our tides would be quadrupled. 1/3 the distance, 9 times the pull. Everything would drown twice a day. Approximately 1.2 billion years ago, the Moon would have been touching the Earth. Drowning would be the least of our concerns!

Earth’s rotation is slowing down. We experience a leap second every year and a half. If the Earth is slowing down, at one time it was going much faster. Besides the problem of extremely short days and nights, the increased “Coriolis Effect” would cause impossible living conditions.

In 1999, the human population passed six billion. In 1985, it passed five billion. In 1962, it passed three billion. In 1800, it passed one billion. In 1 AD, the world’s population, according to the censuses taken by the governments of that time, was only 250 million. At the current human population growth rate, considering wars and famines and all such variables, it would take approximately 5,000 years to get the current population from two original people.

Here is some more proof….

EVIDENCE FROM THE GLOBE
1 - Earth rotation. Because of solar and lunar gravitational drag forces, the spin of the earth (now about 1,000 mph [1,609 kmph]) is gradually slowing down. If our world were billions of years old, it would already have stopped turning. Or, calculating differently, a billion years ago our planet would have been spinning so fast—it would have become a pancake. So, either way, our earth cannot be more than a few thousand years old.—p. 21.

2 - Magnetic field decay. Earth’s magnetic field is slowly, relentlessly lessening. Even 7,000 years ago, the earth would have had a magnetic field 32 times stronger than it is now. Only 20,000 years ago, enough heat would have been generated to liquefy the planet. Therefore, the earth cannot be over 6,000 or 7,000 years old. This is an important matter, affects the entire planet, and has been measured for over 150 years.—pp. 21-23.

HERE IS SOME MORE…………

EVIDENCE FROM BENEATH THE SURFACE OF THE EARTH
1 - Escaping natural gas. Oil and gas are usually located in a porous and permeable rock like sandstone or limestone. Fluids and gas can easily travel through the containing rock, but more slowly pass out through the impermeable rock cap. The rate of gas escapement has been found to be far too rapid to agree with long ages. If the theory were true, all the natural gas would now be escaped.—p. 23.

2 - Oil pressure. When drillers first penetrate into oil, there is a “gusher.” This is caused by high pressure in the oil vein. Analysis of surrounding rock permeability reveals that any pressure within the oil bed should have bled off within a few thousand years, but it has not happened. These deep rock formations and their entrapped oil cannot be older than 7,000 to 10,000 years.—pp. 23, 26.

3 - Oil seepage. If much oil seepage had occurred from out of the ocean floors, all the oil in offshore wells would be gone if the earth were 20,000 years old.—p. 26.

5 - Molten earth. Deep within the earth, the rock is molten; but, if the earth were billions of years old, long ages ago our planet would have cooled far more than it now has.—p. 26.

6 - Volcanic eruptions. There are many extinct volcanoes, but evidence indicates that volcanic activity has only continued a relatively short time since the world began. Otherwise, there would be far more lava than now exists.—pp. 26-27.

8 - Zircon / helium ratios. Helium is a gas and can diffuse out of crystals much more rapidly than many other elements, including lead. Since heat increases chemical activity, there should be no helium left in the zircon in that same deep hole. Yet amazingly little helium has escaped. Therefore the world must be very young.—p. 27.

9 - Soil-water ratio. The earth is still in the partially soaked condition it became at the time of the Flood. This indicates that the Flood occurred only a few thousand years ago.—p. 27.

Here is some more………….

EVIDENCE FROM ON THE SURFACE OF THE EARTH
1 - Topsoil. It has been calculated that 300 to 1,000 years is required to build one inch [2.54 cm] of topsoil. Yet the average depth of topsoil is about eight inches. On this basis, the earth could only be a few thousand years old.—p. 27.

2 - Niagara Falls. Erosion of Niagara Falls is about 3.5 feet [106.68 cm] per year. Since the length of the gorge is about 7 miles, the age of the falls would normally be about 5,000 to 10,000 years at the most. However, the Flood would have greatly accelerated that erosion.—p. 27.

EVIDENCE FROM THE OCEANS
1 - River deltas. The Mississippi River dumps 300 million cubic yards [229 million cm] of mud into the Gulf of Mexico each year—continually enlarging the delta area. Yet the Mississippi delta is not large. Calculations reveal it has only been forming for the past 4,000 years (4,620 years, to be exact). If the world were 120,000 years old, that delta would extend all the way to the North Pole.—pp. 27-28.

2 - Sea ooze. Soft mud from dead plants and animal life form on the floor of the oceans, at the rate of about one inch (2.54 cm) every 1,000 to 5,000 years. The depth of ooze indicates the earth is quite young.—p. 28.

3 - Erosion in the ocean. We do not find the erosion in the ocean floors which ought to be there if the world were millions or billions of years old. There are ragged cliffs and steep mountains. Indeed, the continents should have eroded into the oceans by now.—p. 28.

4 - Thickness of ocean sediments. If the earth were billions of years old, the ocean floor would be covered by sediments from land, measuring 60 to 100 miles [96.5 to 160.9 km] thick, and all the continents would be eroded away. Instead, we only find a few thousand feet of sediment. Based on known yearly sediment deposition, calculations yield only a few thousand years for our planet.—pp. 28-29.

5 - Ocean concentrations. We have a good estimate of the amount of various elements and salts in the ocean, and the amount being added each year. On this basis, our world is fairly young. For example, the age of the earth, based on nitrate analysis, would be 13,000 years.—p. 29.

6 - Growth of coral. Coral growth rates indicate the earth is quite young. No known coral formation is older than 3,500 years.—p. 29.

Here is some more proof………

EVIDENCE FROM LIVING THINGS
1 - Tree rings. Sequoias are never older than 4,000 years, yet are the oldest living thing in our world. Bristlecone pines are said to be older (over 4,000 years); however, it is now known that some years they produce a double tree ring. Therefore, the sequoias remain the oldest. Only man or flood can destroy the sequoia. It appears that climatic conditions, prior to 600 B.C., were erratic and produced difficult conditions, enabling tree-ring counts to provide longer ages than actually occurred.—pp. 29-30.

2 - Mutation load. Calculations based on genetic load (the gradually increasing negative effect of mutation on living organisms) indicate that life forms could not have continued more than several thousand years,—and still be as free from mutational defects as they now are. (The deteriorated atmosphere after the Flood, with the consequent increase of solar radiation, probably increased this genetic load.)—p. 30.

EVIDENCE FROM CIVILIZATION
1 - Historical records. If mankind had been living on earth for millions of years, we should find records extending back at least 500,000 years. (Evolutionists claim that man has been here for a million years.) But, instead, records only go back to about 2000-3500 B.C. When writing began, it was fully developed. The earliest dates are Egyptian (Manetho’s king lists), but should be lowered for several reasons. Well-authenticated Egyptian dates only go back to 1600 B.C.—pp. 30-31.

2 - Early Biblical records. Bible records carry us back to a Creation date of approximately 4000 B.C., with a Flood date of about 2348 B.C. Scientific facts point us toward the same dates.—pp. 31-32.

3 - Astronomical records. Prior to 2250 B.C., we have not one record of a solar eclipse ever having been seen by people! Because it is totally accurate, that earliest recorded astronomical event is a significant date. It comes only about a hundred years after the Flood. We have reason to believe the sky was darkened with volcanic eruptions for years after the Flood ended.—p. 32.

4 - Writing. The oldest writing (pictographic Sumerian) is dated at about 3500 B.C. The earliest Western script (Proto-Sinaitic) somewhat before 1550 B.C.—p. 32.

5 - Civilizations. No really verified archaeological datings predate the period of about 3000 B.C. More ancient dates come from radiocarbon dating, which, prior to about 600 B.C., is known to be much more inaccurate. In every instance, our earliest aspects of civilization (crops, animal husbandry, metallurgy, building, cities, etc.) go back to the Near East. This agrees with the Bible record (Genesis 8:4).—p. 32.

6 - Languages. Records of ancient languages never go back beyond 3000 B.C.; yet, beginning in the Near East, there are language families which have spread all over the world since then.—pp. 32-33.

7 - Population statistics. Estimates, based on population changes, indicate that, about the year 3300 B.C., there was only one family.—p. 33.

8 - Facts vs. theories. Evolutionary estimates of the age of the earth have constantly changed and lengthened with the passing of time (it currently stands at 5 billion years). But the scientific evidence remains constant and, as new authentic evidence emerges, it only fastens down the dates even more firmly. It all points to a beginning for our planet about 6,000 years ago. Some may see it as 7,000 to 10,000 years, but the evidence points most distinctly toward a date of about 4,000 B.C. for the origin of our planet. The evidence for an early earth is not only solid, it is scientific.—pp. 34-35.

Do you need any more proof Evolutionists???????????????????????????????????????????????? Have you finally seen the light???????????? Even your savior and the almighty Darwin said evolution was absurd!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Darwin said and i quote right out of the book of Origin of Species, “To suppose that the eye, with all its inimitable contrivances for adjusting the focus to different distances, for admitting different amounts of light, and for the correction of spherical and chromatic aberration, could have formed by natural selection, seems, I freely confess, ABSURD IN THE HIGHEST POSSIBLE DEGREE.” All i can say is WOW, how the heck did anybody get brainwashed into this theory???????????

ok

Cane Im a creationist my self but if u got ur info from Kent Hovind, then its probably a lie, look kent hovind is a little rough around the edges with his facts. Although his so called facts can be proven wrong, his theory cant!

so with all that proof of creationalism who made god?

About earth’s magnetic field:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thomas_Barnes_(creationist):
“Thomas G. Barnes is a creationist who posited that the magnetic field of the Earth was decaying at an exponential rate. Barnes claimed to have calculated that the half-life of Earth’s magnetic field was approximately 1,400 years. He published these ideas in a 1973 book, Origin and Destiny of the Earth’s Magnetic Field, which was taken up by the creationist establishment. Today, most of his theories within the book have been discredited, largely as Barnes failed to take experimental uncertainties into account and used an obsolete model of the interior of the earth.
Barnes received an honorary Sc.D. degree from Hardin-Simmons University, a Christian school.

About comets:
this is so sensless that a non expert in astronomy like me doesn’t need to do any research. There is a cumulous of ice reach bodies called “Oort’s cloud” from which comets seems to came. From time to time one of this bodies enters in an eccentric orbit, but they are not all in their orbit from the beginning of times, that is the reason why although comets looses matter and eventually are destroyed near the sun or a gigantic planet they are still appearing. Once again, an extremely nonsense argument

About Jupiter and Saturn:
Without understanding nuclear fusion concepts we can’t understand how a star can radiate energy without receiving it from anywhere.
The excess heat of Jupiter is an interesting question that is unanswered at this time (like it was the question about the sun). There is much we don’t know about Jupiter and the other distant planets of the solar system, and much that we have only recently learned. Given the overwhelming evidence of for an ancient solar system and the great deal we do not yet know about Jupiter, it is far more likely that Jupiter’s excess heat will eventually be explained by some process we do not currently understand fully. I think these are very tentative explanations at best, but they show that there are other explanations for the claims of “creationists” other than that the earth and universe are less than 10,000 years old. Deuterium-Deuterium fusion is a possibility that is under study:
http://adsabs.harvard.edu/abs/2000IAUS..202E..75O

About Ganymede and Io.
you have forgotten Io canes.
“Ganymede and Io are under the influence of extremely powerful tidal forces from Jupiter. These forces are enough to keep those planets geologically active. See, for example, Galileo Continues to Return Data from February’s Flyby of Io from NASA’s Jet Propulsion Laboratory.
Io is close enough to Jupiter that the huge planet causes tremendous tidal forces on the smaller, more volatile moon. The tidal forces can cause the surface to bulge up and down (or in and out) by as much as 100 meters (330 feet)!

About the earth’s rotation
http://members.cox.net/ardipithecus/evol/lies/lie005.html
there it explains why the argument is a fake

Well canes, your arguments are all of these styles, they have answers. Before I answer another one it could be nice that you answer one of the arguments I have posted and you seem to ignore while posting yours. For example, c14 is useful to meassure the age of fossiles that have up to 57000 years (ten dacaying periods of C14) U235 have a half life of 710 million years, K240 1,3 billion years. These and other isotopes are used in order to meassure ages longer than the age of the universe (the reasonable one and the one posted by you). Bequerel laws of radioactive decaying are very LAWS (like gravity and other) and they are too simple and too proved to be wrong. So, instead me to explain all your fake arguments. Why don’t you explain me why there are so old rocks or in which way are bequerel laws wrong?

But there are more elementary issues about “creationism” that people misses because everyone trend to follow (answer) other people arguments. What are dinosaur fossils??????? Lets believe that they where lets say 6000 years old??? so they coexisted with humans???? Or they are just fake bones created by…Darwin???? The devil??? uou lot of work uh, that’s a conspiracy theory!!!!! If we shared our world with this bones owners. Why there was not a single human that wrote about these not exactly discrete animals? o sorry i’ve forgotten the Flintstones!!

adrian ur so dum u dont even have the slightest idea what creation is all about. Look 6000 years god made the world, he made humans, he made plants, and he even made dinosaurs at that time, 6000 years ago they all lived together, God told noah to build a boat and take each of every kind, about 4000 years ago.Noah even took dinosaurs on the ark. Wait a minute: dinosaurs are kind of big arent they. So noah took baby dinosaurs cause they sleep more and eat less. But dinosaurs died out, ill talk later more on that. So the fossils we get are from the pre-flooded dinosaurs, the ones that died in the flood along with the fossils of other animals and even humans. Oh YEAH, In 1817 the word dinosaur was made up before then they were called dragons. All over the world there are many legends about dragons, theres even dragon paintnigs on walls of caves, and yes they look exactly like dinos

Adrian, first of all it is a proven fact that carbon dating is not accurate. If you’re going to base your ideas on carbon dating, then your going to have wrong answers. Also, dinosaurs did live with humans. In the Bible, in the book of Job, read chapter 41.

canes you are not answering to me. You can not say “C14 is not accurate” because there is not any measure 100% accurate (see Heisenberg’s uncertainty principle). You must see if is accurate enough. For this you must answer to me with numbers. Your answer must be like “C14 inaccuracy is about 900% ALWAYS so if the maximum that can be measured is 60000 years… ”
With C14 well performed and taking into account inaccuracy sources it is impossible that ALL THE MEASSURES that are older than 7000 years have such an inaccuracy. C14 is not the only method. There is other isotopes with which you can measure up to million and billion years of lots of compounds (as I mentioned K40, U235, Ar40 and so on) there is ways to confirm IF THE ACCURACY IS GOOD TO YOUR OBJECTIVES. Age estimates can be cross-tested by using different isotope pairs. Results from different techniques, often measured in rival labs, continually confirm each other. In fact, there is only a 1% chance of error with current dating technology. Older fossils that can not be measured by C14 are dated with other techniques (plural) that independently confirm the results. There is a lot of lots of studies measuring for example something belonging to a king 1000 years ago, and if your results are 990 +/- 40 years is maybe good (despite the lack of precision), something bad performed could be 1060+/- 15 years.
Stratigraphy? is a law that newer fossils are over older ones, it is evident and logical and there is no evidence of dinosaurs coexisting with humans (is evidence supporting the opposite). Why there is no other evidence than the bible (not very concrete by the way) and some supposed dragon legends…come on?. The flush and Noah’s history can not account for the stratygraphic studies, the flush can not erase more than the superficial strata. THE ARGUMENT ABOUT THE INACCURACY OF RADIOACTIVE METHODS IS ABSOLUTLY A LIE, THEY ARE ACCURATE ENOUGH TO PERFORM MORE ACCURATE STUDIES THAN REFUTING YOUR ARGUMENTS, THAT CAN BE REFUTED WITH AN ACCURACY OF LESS THAN 1%… All non sense with a 99,9% of accuracy. Recommend you to review your knowledge about radiometric studies.

the similarity of dragons and dinosaurs are not better than the similarities between dogs and lambs. the supposed pictures of dinosaurs in caves are in fact dragons (mytical figures) that can be remotely associated with dinosaurs. I insist, Noah’s history can not explain why stratygraphic studies can not find human and dinosaurs in the same strata. Sorry, I were glad if any sign of creation is find, it ensures my life afterdead, but, like Miguel de Unamuno said “is the doubt who kept religion alife”

Wow should be checking more often. Canes you are obviously NOT a scientist or you would know just how absurd that list of arguments you posted is. Im not going to take the time to address each one but just to say that if you know anything about geology (thats rocks and sediment) you know about tectonics which explains much of the “problems” you stated. And you would also be able to distinguish between fields of science for example evolution is biology NOT geology or cosmology. If you dont believe in evolution fine but to say that every field of science is a bunch of krap then post 60 year old arguments that have been disproven several times over is a clear cut sign of a closed mind.

BTW Katrina your list of Biblical contradictions is as lame as Canes list of “proof” proper study would easly clear up those issues but it is contradiction you seek and NOT clarity.

Also Canes the book of Job is poetry and describes a Nile crocodile and a hippo NOT a dragon or dinasour, statements like that make intelligent people run from the truth of Christ

Creation can not be right as it forms its own paradox that you all seam to just skip over if we can only exist because we ar so complicated that me must be designed then “god” must be far more complicated than us (and we are just some thing to pas the time like a video game )but that means that god itself (maby it asexual) must have been created by its god which must have benn created by its god an so on in a never ending line which means that the first god must have come about via its own evlolution (i say evolution as its the onlyothyer viable theroy at the moment but maybe its somthingelse agian) bet this get’s ignored by the creationalists like everything they can not explain at least the evolutionists can admit flaws in thier theory and continue to strive fo a beeter answer . insted of following a book that was writen by some person/persons noones ever meet. So do the creationalists find scientology a reasonable argument , after all it has a book?

if we all came form adamn and even adn then nohas group shouldnt we all be horribly inbred? and have far moore genetic dieases/problems than ther are?

Rich, in the bible it stands something like this: devide the water above and on the earth. this above would form a layer of water above the admosfere, and something like genetic insrihment would take place, it has been tried and tested. theyve tryd to remake the world and found that snakes lost their poison, and many overs like u would for instance nether get sick, thats how strong ur body imunite woud be. I cant really speak freely on this matter as i know little of it but for a 15 year old that might just be enough.

oh, adrian the paintnings i saw were exactly identical, the t-rex did not have wings, just like the drawing of the long-neck thing, pagiusaurus i think, let me tell u a little story, a south african heard explorer, heard about these reports of great creatures in a swamp in the middel of africa (about 70% of this swamp is still unexplored). in the swamp there were many tribes he went to the thirst tribe and took out a picture book of dinosaurs to them, they patiently looked at each picture, but when he came to spesific picture, they stated pointing and chanting Mukili-umbimbi. So the explorer went to another tribe and he said mukili-umbimbi and a tribe member would take a stick and draw on the ground the same beast as what was in the picture that was shown to the other tribe. When the explorer came back from his trip he anounced to the capeagust( newspaper) that he saw creatures that can only fit the deskription of dinosaurs. a Few months later he piblished a book called “the living dinosaur”. (i apologise for my great spelling mistakes im sure i made but im afrikaans not english) oh yes adrian please go read the book u might learn something.

in my next statment ill tell all u mad athiests how evolusion defines sciense, and no this is surely not made up! as u all can see for urself

like genetic insrihment would take place, it has been tried and tested. theyve tryd to remake the world and found that snakes lost their poison, and many overs like u would for instance nether get sick, WHO REMADE THE WORLD? cause that would require far more knowlagde about cells and a more powerfull computer than exists to even perform every calculation of ever atom in you genetics and all weather sstems and such and wouldnt that water fall back to earth? wher did the water go . and noones answered orbitos question about who made god and the paradox thing you just seem to neatly skip over this glareing and huge piece of evidence against your therory

Hmmmmm…Isaac interpret it as you wish but i have a different interpretation. Since when could a hippo or croc breathe fire from its mouth or have smoke pour from its nose or set coals on fire with its breath. my interpretation is a sea monster/dragon

Adrian, what are you talking about the Bible is not concrete? It is the only book in the world that is scientificly accurate. In other words, many of the principles of modern science were recorded as facts of nature in the Bible years and years before scientists confirmed them. The Bible talks about the world being ROUND (All the people had to do during Columbus’s time was READ THE BIBLE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!)(Isaiah 40:22)
There are many more, but you will have to look them up yourselves. I don’t have time to put them ALL on here, there are too many of them. Oh, one more thing, all the excavations that archaeologists of dug up, support the bible. The biggest point that points the Bible is true is this– everything that scientists have found supports the Bible, however everything they have found does not support evolution.

Canes scine you claim to have all the answeres who created god??? creation can not exist unless to can answer thatquestion it is void before you get to any “proof” you have mentioned ergo it dosnt really mater what the bible says because it cant prove or even give a remote answer to the question who made god ? he cant of made him self and you say he cant have evolved so did another god make him but who made him and so on to infinity but wh made the first god then?

i agree 100% with obito, and frankly ,it’s quite ironic, those who believe in creation constantly ask how something such as the universe could come from nothing, yet somehow an “all powerful being” such as “god” could just appear out of nowhere and create it all…that makes even less sense…

Hey Obito, someone had to here since the beginning, and that someone was God. Someone had to be here when time first began, but in the Bible it says God was here before time began. So God was here all the time. Someone had to be here since the beginning!!!!!!!!!

God was always here!

Ask yourself this question….Which one sounds better to you???

Are you an accident resulting from evolution that evolved because you had to adapt and when you die, you just go back to dust, or were you created in a special way from God, who loves you and has purpose for your life, and when you die, you don’t go back to nothing, you will live on in a great city with steets of gold and palaces built up to the sky?

Why are we here????? To live ninety years or whatever and have our whole life be meaningless and have nothing afterwords??????
If our whole life is meaningless and we live for nothing but to eventually die someday,why don’t we just kill ourselves now! No, there is something better and his name is Jesus!!!!!!

life isn’t meaningless, the only reason we exist is to reproduce, as bland and harsh as it may seem that’s the truth, so keep worshipping whatever “god” you see fit but your only making yourself live a lie…and besides none of you answered the question, if something can’t come from nothing, how could “god have been here from the beginning, or at all?

to be honest cannes the one where im not a special flower made for a purpose sounds better to me i live for every second i live to see whats new i live to make and shape my world as i see fit . if i was mearly something here to amuse another i would then kill myself or sit and never move to piss him off for i want my freedom i dont want a puropse thats designed by someone else i want my own, the one i make for myself and why if he loves me so much does he not just spawn me in this paradise why does he put me here where i can feel pain and suffering to be juged for the rest of eterinty on waht may be as long a life as mere hours existing as but one small bunch of cells or a bayby to die in an acident left to wonder in limob (i uderstand that what happens if you die before baptism but i may be wrong) why if i am to live for eternity must i be judged on such a small time, it cant be lear somthing as in the infinte time i spent in paradise i would forget the reason i sufferd / or i go to hell and suffer for all eternity til all i know is suffering for no more reason than i chose my own path. also not totaly up on the whole thing but didnt the devil used to be an angel who left/booted out because he didnt like the way god ran things , why would he then go and do gods bidding in punishing the people who dont follow god idsnt it more likly he would welcome those rebels to hell and they would have ther own paradise based on their own morals and ideas. we dont kill purselves now becausewe dont belive ther is anything after we must enjoy what we have that makes it to use infinity more precious this life because its the only one we have you who belive ther is somehting better for iternity afterward why do you live why not die now and go straight there. and your saying the sole proof you have that god was here first is the writings of a humman that didnt know why he was here and like you jumped to the conclusion that to live only to return to the ust was meaningless and so created a reason to exist a purpose someone to live for with the promise that ther was a reason for his pain wher as we love our lives and want to make our paradise here for us and our desendants. and you say someone must have been here in the begining ? thatm akes no sense at all why must there be a consusnes why it is far more likey that there would only be basis , the prospect the ingredents for concusnes in saying what you have you have made your self look like a fool .also what if you have the wrong religion? you may just be pissing off the real god a hellof a lot more. “No, there is something better and his name is Jesus!!!!!!” how is jesus better may i ask i mean hevan has to have billions of residents adn of course maby aliens too (or if you say they dont exist in the millions of years in the future if we ever meet any that will mean we can safly say well no more need for church that was a load of bollocks) so your probally not going to meet him that often nice how you forget the dude who “made” him though. oh and (hideus generalisation comming up) its been the people who belive in a god that in the past have tried to stop scientific advance ie th gallileo thing(even thoguh he himself belived in god) and this advance will hopefull lead to a way to leave our solar system as of course the sun will expand/explode byebye inner planets so for us to contiue to eist we have to leave and for that im thankfull for the nonbelivers. (you may want to ignore that part as it is a generalisation as i said may who are key to this may belive in a god). goodday to you for now every one rember to do somthing you want to somthing that make